Hello. You åre probåbly ålreådy getting bored with my messåges! But ånywåys. I håve å problem i need to choose å fåction. I håve nårrowed down my options to be either Mordor, Moriå or Ångmår. The reåson i like these fåctions is "monsters" ånd other ghoul things, things such ås giånt spiders, shelob, trolls, drågons, dråkes, wåtcher in the wåter, bålrog, gulåhvår, fellbeåst, wårgs, bårrowwights...

I could write long texts, but becåuse i wånt ånswers i guess its better to keep it short - goblins i feår håve too low figh vålue, too low mågic, too low mobility ånd too båf årchers. Mordor seems to be most rounded. Ångmår hås å bit problem with low fight ånd båd årchers, ånd less beåsts thån moriå, but ultimåte mågic. So... Which one of these is best competitively? Which one of these ållows you to not die ågåisnt nåst elves who hit ånd run with årchers? Which one of these ållows you to beåt grumpy dwårves thåt håve op D7 or even more def? Which one of these ållows to do åll thåt while håving å centerpeåce-monster? Thx å lot for ånswers!

Knowing your posting history, don't you have options in all three armies? You don't have to pick one or the other if you have the models, and there's no objectively better faction. They can all make really strong armies and they can all make non-competitive armies. This game is really well balanced, pretty much every faction can make a strong army.

All three of them have answers to Elves and Dwarves, it depends what suits your style.

I think I said this in your topic vs Dwarves: one of the strengths of Moria is that you can take big monsters and still have lots of Goblins. Goblins are very easy to kill so you need to have numbers. If you match your opponent's numbers but have bigger monsters, they can avoid your monsters and focus on killing Goblins.

Mordor is diverse, there are so many different ways to play Mordor that I don't know if I can cover it in one post. You can horde, you can go elite, you can do a mix. Morannons are cheap enough that you can have a big army of them. That doesn't make it a better or worse army than the others, it has more options and it's up to you to do something with those options.

I love Angmar, I think it can be incredibly powerful, but also has a steep learning curve.


All this to say there's no better army. Decide what you want to use, they all have answers to Elves and Dwarves.

Ok, lets focus on Moria (moria is my new faction i am trying out ^^):

1. If your enemy will play elves or similar faction with a lot of bows, what must moria do to counter them?

2. If your enemies will play strong melee such as uruks, is it better to focus on the cheapest goblins or on the blackshields? Both have very low fight value, so this fight value isalways causing some despair..

3. Is "Watcher in the water" usable if enemy heroes have fight 6 or higher? Is there any tricks how to make the watcher in the water to be useful in a situation when an enemy has a higher fight value than its own? I tried bats (with trolls) for test reason and i honestly couldnt get the bats to help trolls in a single battle, because the enemy always made sure there is 2 units against the monster in critical battle so if bat comes fight is divided into 2? Is there any other tricks than the bats? Espec the "Watcher in water" tempts me as a new centerpiece, but im worried whetger the low Fight value will get her in a trouble...thx a lot for help!

1) Elves or other enemies with lots of archers.
If it's Elves or Dwarves with S3 Bows (or similar Longbows like what some Gondorians have), they wound regular Goblins on 5s and Blackshields on 6s. You could do a line of Blackshields if you want to go that route. The other option, which I'll always recommend anyway for Goblins, is to be faster. Any hero with Heroic March: I believe that's the no-name Captains and Durburz, will mean you're spending less turns being shot at and you're not getting outmaneuvered by your opponent. A Moria army is comfortable taking lots of small heroes, so you should have enough Might to cross the battlefield and still have enough to get in battle.

2) Blackshields or regular Goblins.
Think of what they need to wound you. Uruks and other S4 enemies wound D5 and D6 on a 5+, so you don't benefit from Blackshields there, you're paying a lot more points for nothing. Blackshields do have Hatred (Dwarves) so they get +1 to wound against them, so it depends what you're facing. I'll have to do math to see if they're worth it against S4 Dwarves or if you'd be better served with more Goblins.
If you don't know what you're facing, you could do a mix, you have 3 very good troop options in Warriors, Blackshields and Prowlers, and each of them has a place where it does better than the others.

As for the FV issue, yes, Goblins have a low FV, but you have tools available to you to boost that. The army bonus for one thing, Groblog is another (if you can get it to work, then Goblins near Groblog benefiting from the army bonus are FV4, Prowlers are FV5 and Durburz is FV6 with the option to Heroic Strike). You've tried the Bats, I recommend practicing some more with them, because they can definitely be game-changing if you use them well. It comes down to timing, knowing how to isolate your targets without getting counter-charged, and that comes with practice. What I can say from my experience with them is that you want access to Might for Heroic Moves, you want more numbers so you can tie up everything that could interfere or counter-charge, and then you can pair your Bats with something to do its damage.

Another thing you could do with Bats is get Druzhag. He's his own army really, but it's a fun army that can do lots of cool things, and is hard to predict where you're attacking next.

3) The Watcher would just have to fight something else other than the big hero, unless you're using either Bats or a Heroic Striking Durburz/whatever high FV hero you want, then you can team them up to get your kill. The Watcher is really good at disrupting formations, rolls lots of dice, can do damage. You have to build a strong army around it.


Big thing with horde armies like Goblins or Orc Warriors: it doesn't work if your opponent has more Might and a similar army size. You NEED to significantly outnumber and you need the flexibility of lots of small Captains. Your models die way too quickly, the only way around that is to just have more. Your Bat Swarm problem in your last game is a good example, your opponent was able to put more Dwarves in combats, so you couldn't get a Bat Swarm in there or it kept getting tied up. If you have too many Goblins, you're able to control what your opponent can and can't tie up.

I used to do this sort of thing all the time with Shelob: she and Shagrat (old Captain profile) would wait in the corner for an opening to attack the enemy leader. Once I get that opportunity, all my Orcs would tie up anything that could possibly interfere with that combat, and Shagrat and Shelob would charge the leader and usually kill them in one turn. It's a lot harder to do if you're outnumbered.

Ok, so i suppose goblins should not get bows versus rånged enemies, becåuse goblin bows håve shorter rånge thån the enemy bows will håve? Or in cåse of dwårves they åre useles ånywåys.

Would groblok, 2 cåptåins, 36 goblins ånd the wåtcher be good årmy åt 500 points versus årchers, or versus dwårves? Or is the måss too few to wield wåtcher yet?