I have a tourney coming up next weekend and I'm torn between four different evil lists. The tourney rules demand at least one banner per faction (making alliances hard), and while I generally avoid powergaming lists, especially this time I want something fun yet still capable of doing well. Here they are:

Army 1:
THA HEROES
_Shagrat Warleader (Leader)
_Gorbag - Shield
_Ringwraith - 2/7/2, Horse
_Shelob
THA WARRIORS
_10 Mordor Uruk-hai - Shields
_10 Mordor Orcs - Spears
_5 Mordor Uruk-hai - Two-Handed Weapons
_5 Morgul Stalkers
_1 Spectre
_1 Orc Banner
TOTAL: 650, 36 Models, 8 Might on the table.

A nice little Cirith Ungol/Minas Morgul theme. For more perfect theme, I would have preferred to take Captain Shagrat, but the scenarios do depend on heroes' survivability. I like this one for its FV4 and lots of Might. Shelob and Ringwraith mean that I won't struggle to kill my opponents' heroes, which is worth a lot of VPs. Otherwise, not too much to say about this one, Stalkers are fun to use and the Spectre is there in case of Shades.
I thought about having a couple of Giant Spiders in place of a Spectre, Stalker, and the Ringwraith's Horse, but this won out for now.

Army 2:
_Sauron - the Ring (Leader)
_The Undying - Fell Beast
_1 Orc Banner
TOTAL: 650, 3 Models, 5 Might on the table.

Probably the only army that isn't particularly vulnerable to bowfire. No real theme here, I just felt like repainting my Sauron. Should do well in the hero-killing scenarios, and I trust my ability to do well enough in the objective capturing scenarios, I just wonder if this one would be any fun to face.

Army 3:
THA HEROES
_Shagrat Warleader (Leader)
_Dragon - Fly, Breathe Fire (because I can)
THA WARRIORS
_10 Mordor Orcs - Shields
_9 Mordor Orcs - Spears
_4 Orc Trackers - Wargs
_1 Orc Banner
TOTAL: 648, 26 Models, 6 Might on the table

The only army with any form of ranged weapons, including one of the most powerful in the game. I know most people would recommend I replace it with Tough Hide, but I'm a rebel and the threat of his fiery breath should be an interesting dynamic. This one is at that awkward stage of not having enough models to horde, but still trying. It looks like the most fun army, but also the most difficult to use well.

Army 4:
THA HEROES
_Witch King - 3/10/3 (Leader)
_Buhrdur
_Barrow Wight
_Shade
THA WARRIORS
_22 Orcs - Shields
_21 Orcs - Spears
_1 Orc Banner
TOTAL: 648, 48 Models, 6 Might

Nothing fancy here, just a poop tonne of Orcs and some scary magic. This is probably the most reliable of the lists. Not too much to say about it.
I could drop an Orc to put the Banner on a Warg.
The other option is to drop 13 Orcs, get 12 Trackers, put the Witch King on a horse and give him a Morgul Blade.

So, which one would you pick and why? Whatever your reasoning is, I want to hear it. The scenarios are To The Death, The High Ground, and two "Kill Enemy Hero, Other Objectives Too"

I dont play mordor, but i can tell you what army i fear a most.
I think n°4 need more skill, but can be the most painfull. S an F 6 with burdur, ringwraith for a little magic pain, C and F malus for ennemy, terror ...

Army 2 can be fun, but you loose banner and you give free victory points. You loose ringwraith, and sauron need to test courage, free victory points (and courage test, without luck ...). Finnaly, capture objectives with only 2 fig is hard ! I i dont speak about outnumber !

List no1 is great, thematic and balanced for the game. I would not take so many morgul stalkers and I would give more will to the nazgul. If you can, take spider queen in place of shelob, it would be way much better. Shelob acts as a defensive fast monster that holds objective or kills separated troops. Spider Queen is a hell of a line breaker. Otherwise adding more orcs to outflank the enemy is an option too. But must take a banner, so make an army where the banner finds value.

_________________
Conversation/Ideas over painting etc, can check here:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=29455

Alright, we have a vote for each of the three that I figured would get votes. I theorized a bit more with Army 3 and figured that each of the other lists would easily be able to stop it (all having access to some form of magic to drain the Dragon's Will and make it run), that and too few Orcs to really do anything other than die - all the killing is saved for Shagrat and the Dragon. Plus I really doubt that I'll get my Dragon ready in time, so Army 3 is out.


Army 1 is probably what I've got the most experience with. It would still take some skill to play because the battle line is so short, I'd have to play it more like a skirmish and less like a shieldwall battle. Still, I very much know what I'm getting out of this one: wicked hero-killing (Valadorn, you're not wrong about the Shelob/Spider Queen suggestion, but Shelob is just so so much better at taking down big heroes while SQ is better at killing masses of troops), and a good enough Fight Value to compete. It's got a low Defence overall and not too many troops, but it's something I can handle.

Army 2 is the most interesting tactically, but I fear it would lead to the most boring games of all the options. A lot of it would be abusing Sauron's range, then once I've done enough damage with spells, I would charge Sauron and the Nazgul in. Fell Beast hurls models, Sauron tries to kill 4 a turn with his mace. I can feel fairly confident about not breaking because, short of Floi, not many models can kill the Undying. Sauron with the Ring speaks for himself. The Banner hides/sits on objectives so hopefully that won't die either.

Army 4 benefits from the Banner more than any of the others thanks to the Shade also being there. Again, enemy heroes will die no problem thanks to the shenanigans I'm packing. It's a big army with enough threats, also the easiest to do well with. This is what I would pick of the four if I just wanted results. Tactically, however, there's just nothing really interesting about it. Mob forward, Sap Will, Paralyze, Buhrdur in the face.


So, I'm slightly closer to a decision than I was a couple of days ago, but would appreciate a bit more help (and am really grateful to Malenthal and Valadorn for their input). Which army would you go with if you were me and why?

I'd vote Army 1...with Witch King to replace your Budget Naz (a bargain for just a few more will). Fell beast seems a more versatile hero killer than Shelob (and much cheaper), but never played her. Can she win fights with only one attack?

Black Numenorians give you F4 and Terror for the same price as your Mordor Uruk-hai...

I've had no luck with Morgul Stalkers or two handed weapons.

I like armies 1 and 4. I think both 2 and 3 aren't going to be much fun to play against.

Thanks for the input everyone! I ended up going with a modified version of Army 1, mostly that I put the Banner on a Warg and dropped a couple of Stalkers+Spectre for 5 Orc Trackers on Warg. The tourney was fun, I went 2-2, which apparently is good for me these days.

I include a Spectre with all my evil tournament lists in case I come up against a Shade. This time, I figured that the composition rules force you to be a bit more thematic than usual, so I probably won't see any. I ended up facing two separate armies with Shades...

As far as what the different elements of the army had to do, some things worked, some things didn't. I've had tremendous success over the years using Shelob as a tanky hero hunter. Partner her up with a captain, isolate the hero, death death death. This time, I mostly used her as a flanker to hurl things and disrupt the lines, with mixed success. For that role, I agree with Valadorn that the Spider Queen would have been a better option (or, as bruceqn says, a Fell Beast).

My first game was against a Harad/Angmar alliance in a Hold Ground variant that centred on hero-killing. As soon as we closed in, I had a lucky Transfix go my way against his leader (the Golden King) and charged him with Shagrat and a couple of Uruks. Out of my 8 attacks, I managed 5 wounds, the King had one left. Next turn, Black Dart goes off, I roll a 1 to wound. I got a point for wounding the leader, couldn't get the full 3 for killing, and my opponent had a few more models at the objective than I did by the end of the game (Shade gently made its presence felt this time).

Game 2 was against a Gondor force. Shelob just hurled and hurled and hurled and I won thanks to that. Nothing crazy to talk about tactically.

Game 3 was my big tactical failure. My opponent had pure Angmar, with his frontline spearheaded by Buhrdur and 2 Cave Trolls, backed up by a shade, and everything else was Fury-charged Orcs. I charged headlong into the Trolls. Of course I was very bunched up too, just to make it better. After all the hurling was done, I had lost 15 models by turn 1. There are a thousand and one better ways to have approached that battle, not least of which being to send Shelob up against one of the Trolls and devour it in a turn, send my heroes up against them and strike up, but I'll blame that one on my sleep-deprived status.

Last game didn't have too much to talk about, I faced Gondor again and it just became about who could get more models on the objective, I nabbed it in the end.


Fun army overall, Mordor Uruks are a really fun skirmishing force, and Stalkers make for very interesting assassins. The main lesson here is: don't go to tournaments on three hours of sleep because you will make stupid mistakes.

Mr. Dude you need to hit me up outside of this site so we can talk about this stuff. I read this, saw the dates, and said damn.

_________________
BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Number 1 with shelob shagrat rly cool list! Take it.

For future tournaments? It's all on the OSBGL Facebook page, I just go to the ones I find most convenient