Smaug - Will we see him or not?

Dead Marsh Spectre · **Posted:** Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:13 pm

Seems to be plenty of debate across the boards at the moment about whether we will see a miniature (if you can call it that ) of Smaug. This thread is the place to discuss.....

To start - I heard someone say somewhere that a design for the model had been put to New Line and they turned it down stating it was too small and that the model would need to be 36 inches..... lol i'd buy one.

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

Alright, will just copy my comment on the other thread then:

Would be very much surprised if no Smaug whatsoever is to be released. However, it can definitely take a while: both because of all these scale issues, but it also is possible to take a while because it can be released months after the third movie - plenty of time to get everything sorted out and produced.

A Hobbit range without Smaug would be very strange indeed. With a plastic Balrog, mumak and fellbeast in the current range, a big plastic dragon should be a possibility. Yes, it will be expensive (to produce and buy), but it is far from limited to LotR/Hobbit players and collectors: plenty of Warhammer enthusiasts are interested in a big plastic dragon (just like the Balrog was used to build big plastic daemons) and pretty much everybody else likes dragons anyway, right?

To say that balancing it in terms of rules is impossible is a strange argument too: Sauron isn't exactly vulnerable, nor are mûmakil, the Balrog, the Watcher in the Water - either in their movie portrayal or game terms. Yet, they all were all given balanced and fitting rules. A scaled-down Smaug with scaled-down (yet powerful) rules is by no means strange or impossible.

VictoryGin · **Joined:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:05 am **Posts:** 189

We will see one.

He will be expensive, but there will be one. If they can do a Mumak, they can do Smaug!

VG

Creaky · **Joined:** Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:26 pm **Posts:** 424

Smaug is certainly do-able. A Mumak scaled plastic kit, with a Balrog-ish tier profile.

Sadly, if the contract-people say 'no', there's not a great deal we, or GW can do, besides trying to negotiate (something I image GW will be desperately trying to do - Smaug aside, there's room in the miniatures market for a gobsmakingly cool, large and plastic Dragon).

Here's to hoping they change their minds. Myself - if there's no word or rumour by the time the Blu-Rays come out, I shall be using that to help me convert one using one of those PVC single pose childrens toy dragons you can pick up for cheapish.

theavenger001 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:31 pm

I think GW totally want to make one, but whether they will be able to make a feasibly sized one under the terms of the contract is another matter. I've heard that under the new hobbit contract they have to make things exactly to-scale. Just a thought, but do the three trolls line up with this? Because if that is so I can't see GW making a huge dragon that big. If they were able to scale it down like they did with the mumak then I can see GW making one 100% for sure.

Dorthonion · **Posted:** Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:00 pm

I see a range of scenarios here, some of which are frankly annoying.
Worst case: IP owners and their lawyers say no to any design GW can afford to make so that kills it. I think this is unlikely but not an impossibility.
Not quite as bad: after prolonged legal wrangling, a kit is approved, but is not commercially viable in polystyrene so it ends up as ForgeWorld or FineCast resin and costs a bomb. Unlikely again (I hope), but not quite as improbable.
Getting warmer: after less wrangling, GW produce a plastic kit that is about mumak size. Probable, yes, but does that do justice to the sheer size of Smaug? Not in my opinion. It would be more affordable, but then when some people quite happily want several (or more) mumakil in their army, you will ONLY ever need one Smaug.
Best case scenario (for me anyway): GW are allowed to make a masterpiece in plastic that is at least twice the tonnage of a mumakil. It will be expensive, but for this at least I would be happy to pay full whack - a kit that does justice to the superb onscreen rendition of Smaug.

Isilduhrr · **Posted:** Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:14 pm

but to give him rules that befit his sheer strength and power - he would be more than 700 points in my opinion! not feasible for most skirmish battles.

Creaky · **Joined:** Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:26 pm **Posts:** 424

Compared to the Balrog? Or Sauron? I could see his profile nestling between those two quite happily. The Balrog destroyed the most powerful Dwarf Kingdom in middle earth, and being a Maia spirit, was only bested when met by an equal. Smaug is a Dragon - the most powerful and feared Dragon of his age, yes - but a 'mere' Dragon nonetheless. A 'supercharged' Dragon profile with some unique attributes and rules would be sufficient, in game terms. In real terms, of course, the Balrog, Sauron, and Smaug should all be incomprehensibly powerful and have no real place in skirmish games (outside of a themed scenario or two). But we wanted them, GW wanted them, and so there they are. Two of them, at least. Their powers are just scaled down appropriately so that whilst powerful, they're not instant-win pieces.

Isilduhrr · **Posted:** Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:55 pm

you're completely right Creaky - when you put it in perspective like that it was a stupid statement on my part.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:11 am

If they do a Smaug model, all they really have to do is have his tail wrap around the base all the way. that would take up most of his length. So long as his wings are folded and his head is reared up, he'd fit pretty well on a big base.

VictoryGin · **Joined:** Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:05 am **Posts:** 189

theavenger001 wrote:

I think GW totally want to make one, but whether they will be able to make a feasibly sized one under the terms of the contract is another matter. I've heard that under the new hobbit contract they have to make things exactly to-scale.

Why would they sign that contract if they knew Smaug was coming?

VG

DwarfWarrior · **Posted:** Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:32 am

36 inches?!!!

Zarathustra Suicuine · **Joined:** Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:24 pm **Posts:** 183

36"..... big may be good but that may simply too big, the amount of preperation you would need just so he didn't take up the whole board, and then there is transporting a model of that size as well.
That said I hope we will,as it would be a shame if there is no Smaug.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

I think we'll definitely see a Smaug model. Whilst I don't doubt anyone on here, the first time I heard this "New Line Warner Bros scale issue" thing was on a rumour site famous for being unreliable and essentially just aggravating all the rumours from other sites. It seems to me like many people have now spread this rumour and so 'heard' it too, I don't think anything approaching a firm source has been cited. It originated in early November as a reason that we wouldn't see Smaug released in December presumably by people who know nothing about the SBG release trends/history. The big beasty has never been released in the first wave but in the summer following the film's release (Sauron/Fell Beast/Mumakil) and I'd expect the same for Smaug, I reckon he'll be the last release for this film around June/July.

If there has been a delay it's far more likely to be because the design changed from 4 legs to 2 legs and they had to adapt the model accordingly. This could cause a substantial delay in production as witnessed by the Dimril Dale dwarves and Azog, all who were late additions to the first film and were released in August.

As for the possibility that he might have been refused due to scale issues, it's possible but I think it's quite unlikely. The Lego Tower of Orthanc isn't to scale (surely they'd have the same agreement with all their merchandisers?) and like others have said the Mumak and The Watcher etc. have been scaled down in the past. The simple fact is that the normal dragon model should be far bigger but has been scaled (HA!) down to make it practical, the same will probably be true of Smaug, he'll be bigger than the current dragon but far smaller than he appears on screen.

As to his stats, again, his destructive potential will be scaled down to make him useable. If you look at a normal Dragon's upgrades, Smaug should have all 4 so I reckon he'll be 500 points with all 4 upgrades and probably a couple of other bonuses (I'd imagine that maybe his courage text after each wound might be removed).

I wouldn't worry unduly yet, we'll probably see the big beasty!

Harfoot · **Posted:** Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:01 pm

I notice the Forge World Red Dragon is no longer on their website, it was always a good alternative. A missed opportunity for extra sales.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

I always like the Warpfire Dragon as a potential SBG dragon/Smaug although obviously now he doesn't fit the 2-legged design:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/W ... RAGON.html

I've also long thought that the Mourngul would make a great Necromancer Proxy and I must say that after seeing DOS it would still kinda fit, I'm quite tempted...

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/W ... RNGUL.html

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:13 am

I see one happening I see it being like 500+ points and most importantly for me, I see it being $150-200 and no way I'm gonna buy it.

The mumak was a beast at $100 and now prices have gone up. I'd love to see a well painted well designed Smauf and if someone i played had it cool.....but I won't end up with it.

Anxious to see the rules. I think he should be a tad bigger than the mumak. He is smaug the terrible destroyer of worlds and he should be a maniac.

Personally I plan on buying a toy dragon and make up rules. The ones I've seen are too small so I'll either cancel or have a bad size replicant. Woe is me.

I do think GW will make one eventually though.

JamesR · **Posted:** Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:54 am

I too think they will make one and I intend to purchase it. I've got Sauron, the mumak, the watcher, the Balrog and I'm not stopping there lol

mordor orc · **Joined:** Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:25 pm **Posts:** 58

I think we will see smaug. He is the whole reason the company set off. He is the main villan so I'm sure we'll see him at some stage before the end of there and back again.

Grungehog · **Posted:** Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:11 am

He didn't seem THAT BIG in the film, a smidgen bigger than a mumak perhaps, but not a 36" model!, as much as I hate the bipedal design, I do look forward to seeing how gw portray him.
When they do.

Smaug - Will we see him or not?

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