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 Post subject: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:52 pm 
Wayfarer
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I'm getting back into the hobby and would like some advice on a decent Isengard list. It doesn't need to be super competitive, but i'd like it to be able to perform well in most situations. I've drawn up a basic list, but any input you guys can provide would be most welcome!

So far I have;

Warband 1
Mauhur
x6 Uruk-hai Scout - Shields, Marauders

Warband 2
Ugluk
x4 Uruk-hai Berserker
x8 Uruk-hai Warrior - Pikes

Warband 3
Lurtz
x8 Uruk-hai Warrior - Crossbows
x2 Uruk-hai Berserker

First off, Lurtz is just a stand-in for Vrasku, for which I do not yet have the model. As soon as I do, he shall take his place (same points).

My general strategy/idea with this list is to use Ugluk as the main core of the army, able to dish out a lot of damage with pike support. Also his head-taker rule may be good in a desperate pinch. The Lurtz/Vrasku warband will hopefully be deployed in good cover/terrain somewhere with good vantage points of the table. The extra 'zerkers are there incase the enemy deploy nearby. I'll move them away once i'm sure they're safe. Finally Mauhur's group will be good for fast(ish) flanking or objective claiming if need be.

As I said before, i'm no expert, so I have no idea if this theory would hold true in a game. My possible concerns are the pike/berserker ratio. Would it be best to just use them like Spears and have 6 of each? Also, should I be thinking of taking Uruk's with shields for a spear wall, and keep the zerkers as a separate warband? My other idea would be to replace the two zerkers in the crossbow warband for a Bannerman in Ugluk's group. I see some of the scenario VP's are awarded for keeping a banner alive, so is it worth the points to take one?

As for alternate models I have to interchange with the list; I have a lot of uruks with pikes, shields and a few more berserkers. No more scouts unfortunately. I have Saruman/Grima, Sharku, 6 Warg Riders, an Isengard Troll, and a Bannerman.

As a quick side-question, is it possible for me to take the Bannerman with a pike? I could not find anything in the rulebook or sourcebook stating one way or the other. I know bannermen able to take spears/shields, but the length of the banner is exactly the same as a pike (possibly add a spike bit to the top?).

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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Having as much defence 6 as you can is important, you gonna get challenged by S3 armies way more just relieying on 6 models with D6.
I could potencially see Ugluk being played at this point since the army is a bit more squishy so its likely to get broken sooner after all in which the headtaker might be usefull, just keep in mind those are uruk hai, they are expensive and losing models for that rule might be not that wise after all, adding to this, Ugluk like the rest has defence 5, they are very likely to be really squishy for uruk hai standart and might die off early on to even contest the benefits of their rules unless youre keeping them back of the fight in which youre not benefit from their fight 5 and S5 at all..

As for me I would maybe replace Ugluk for a standart captain with heavy armour and shield, you really need that defence 7 guy badly to hold in melee.
You have 31 models, only 16 can pick the banner, maybe but not sure, would make more sense having alot more defence 6 in the bunch in order to keep alive through attriction.

If you had faced a random dwarf captain with shield + 8 dwarfs with shield for example, apart from the berserkers and uruk leaders, your line will have trouble to deal with them, needing 6s to wound on an alright high Strength type of army, while them, jsut need at most 5s to wound you...
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:58 pm 
Kinsman
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I play a similar army, you should get rid of Ugluk and use sharkey and worm instead. They cost the same but will help you much more against lists with a mighty hero (100+ pts) or a troll.
Here is what I propose :
Warband 1 12/12
Sharkey and Worm
5 Uruk-hai Warrior with Pike;
6 Uruk-hai Warrior with Shield;
----
Warband 2 9/12
Mauhúr
9 Uruk-hai Marauder with Shield;
----
Warband 3 10/12
Vraskû
8 Uruk-hai Warrior with Crossbow;
2 Uruk-hai Berserker
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:08 pm 
Kinsman
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I would swap out lurtz, and put a shaman in there.
fury is allways a nice thing to have.
Certainly when you are facing terror models.
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Thanks for the input guys!

Unfortunately I do not have Sharkey/Shaman models yet (although the shaman sounds like a good purchase). As to the D6 suggestion, in that case should I change the main squad to 6 berserkers, 6 pikes, and swap Ugluk for a heavy/shield captain? I could also move the 2 zerks from the Crossbow to Scout squad. Or at this point would it best to ditch that squad entirely for another zerk/pike block?

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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Its kinda bugging you know...Despite berserkers are your ultimate melee type of troop and only flee with roll on snake eyes, their 2 handed weapons dont necessarly allows them to get pike support.
You will have to get those uruks with shields if you wanna benefit from the lot.
if it was me, maybe I would give those 3 warbands but

warband 1 mauhur with 3 or 4 uruks with shield, 3 ferals
warband 2 uruk captain with h.armour and shield, 5 uruks with shield, 5 with pike 2 zerkers
warband 3 vrasku with 7 crossbows, 3 zerkers


I dont have the book in here so im making this just thinking of strategy

Warband 1 its a flanker, its the group that holds more melee potencial without negative rolls to win combat from 2 handed weapons, the uruks with shield are merely to provide cover to mauhur and the ferals.

Warband 2 is your main battleline, made of alot sturdy type of fighters, these are the walls of your force and they can survive through attricion, they do also have 2 oportunistic flankers in their mix, made up of 2 berserkers in the hopes you can do several multiple combats in which they might help you.

Warband 3 is the shooting range group, deadly with the bolts but also with some protection with some nasty berserkers who can make your oponent think twice before charging headlong to them. those 3 being more than the main line are basically to provide you deadly brute force in which you might lack if the crossbows are caught in combat.
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Thanks Galanur.

I like the sound of that list. It makes a lot more sense. Although I thought in the new rules 2h wielders can now be supported by pikes/spears?

Unfortunately I do not own any ferals, but I see your point on how the not having 2h's makes them much more viable. I'll look into grabbing some.

I'll draw up a new list soon with your advice. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:56 pm 
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You are correct.
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Oddeh wrote:
Unfortunately I do not own any ferals, but I see your point on how the not having 2h's makes them much more viable.


Berzerkers also have a hand weapon, so you don't have to incur the penalty if you don't want to. Also ferals have lower D, riskier against S3 troops, which most Good armies are. So I wouldn't say ferals are "much more viable". They're cheaper, but you get what you pay for.
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:35 pm 
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whafrog wrote:
Berzerkers also have a hand weapon, so you don't have to incur the penalty if you don't want to.


Oh wow, I did not realise that. Thanks for the tip. OOC would the hand weapons have to be modelled on for it to be used, or is it just assumed?

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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:20 pm 
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I do use at most berserkers, at 400pts I use least 5 or 6 cause I wanna look mean to the field, although each 6 i get on wound hurts me :P
I do use uruk with shield cause of shielding and hold the line, although berserkers in comparison for 5+pts you get an extra attack (2 weapons of choice) and a huge, but really huge courage value, which fleeing from the combat with army broken is likely the last thing you gonna be worried about lol

The weapons are assumed on their profile (just watched the book) so every 1 knows they have those weapons, if they dont know, show em the book :)
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Thanks again Galanur. I totally know what you mean. I want to bring as many as I can afford just for sheer intimidation factor! Also, as you said, the courage boost is massive for me, as I always tend to snowball into losing after 50% (Curse that 2 courage for a lot of evil troops!).

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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:31 pm 
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uruks have courage of man (3) and captains of (4) although yes not as reliable, if the army gets broken is more likely the captain to lose his nerve rather than the crazed fanatics lol
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 Post subject: Re: 500pts Isengard
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:29 pm 
Ringwraith
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Oddeh wrote:
whafrog wrote:
Berzerkers also have a hand weapon, so you don't have to incur the penalty if you don't want to.


Oh wow, I did not realise that. Thanks for the tip. OOC would the hand weapons have to be modelled on for it to be used, or is it just assumed?


Every model has a hand weapon, unless the profile specifically says they are otherwise "unarmed". An unarmed example would be Cirdan.
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