You never know with Peter Jackson do you G, he just could.....

Sid- I know where you are coming from and just what you mean, LOTR was more realistic Fantasy, abit like Game of Thrones, compared to say Dungeons & Dragons, more sort of extreme fantasy.

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Harfoots-The first of the Hobbit people to cross over the Misty Mountains and enter Eriador.

Well, a shapeshifting bear with animal servants and cockney trolls and a river that makes you fall asleep is pretty standard fantasy. As is an army of ghosts (on both sides i might add), talking moving trees, living mountains, rivers that flood in the shape of horses and living flame and shadow.

The difference in my mind between The Hobbit and LotR is that LotR took place mostly in the human/'real' realms, with the bad guys generally being more fantasy based. While they did go to places like Fangorn, they were mostly in Rohan and Gondor. In the Hobbit, the most 'real' place they go is Esgaroth, which is a city that is on a lake and lives within sight of a dragon.

I understand that these movies are different in that they're more stereotypically fantasy, but I think the book was always designed like that anyway.

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I think Tolkien had very little realism in mind in the trenches when he first started compiling his ideas, literally to provide a bright mind with something to do in a situation that was usually tediously dull, occasionally broken up by horrendous violence and death.

I agree.

For me the realism debate is about how believable the film imagery is, not how plausible the overall story is. As fantasy tales, neither LotR or Hobbit are particularly believable. But the film techniques used in LotR (breathtaking scenery shots, relatively limited CGI, costumes, etc etc) allowed the trilogy to absorb you and make you "believe" in Middle-earth. It made the films come to life. The Hobbit seems all-too-willing to take shortcuts. The first film seemed like a video game or animated film. Nothing about it really absorbs you, makes you believe in Middle-earth.

Compare the Fellowship in Moria with the Company in Goblin Town. The difference in tension is significant. The Hobbit event was just far more 'light' and comic like. I felt no tension at all for the lead characters and did nothing to pull me in. It was fun to watch but that's all.

But the Hobbit itself is a children's story to start with. There is a lot of humor and light events built into it. We'll see what happens in DoS, but generally I view the Hobbit films as a real good desert following the terrific dinner of the LotR trilogy.

The use of CGI so heavily is acceptable in this perspective for me because I EXPECT it to be a 'sweet'. If there is little believably or tension in a scene with the Dwarves having a wild "Temple of Doom" style chase through Goblin Town, with no one getting hurt from falls or thwacks that should cause serious damage, then the CGI doesn't but me as much. I am disappointed by the lack of believably whenever I let myself think it could have been on par with LotR, but I just keep reminding myself "children's story" and I can get over it.

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Hi Beowulf03809

What you have said about the Hobbit being a children's story is definitely true when compared to LOTR:

[quote="Beowulf03809"]Compare the Fellowship in Moria with the Company in Goblin Town. The difference in tension is significant. The Hobbit event was just far more 'light' and comic like. I felt no tension at all for the lead characters and did nothing to pull me in. It was fun to watch but that's all.

and I liked your dinning analogy. I do think that P.J. has tried to make it look as real as possible but, it definitely lost verismilitude with the lighter tone, particularly the video game-esque Indiana Jones bit.

I would also say that I don't really know who half ofthe Company are in respect of character development, though I though Thorin and Boffur were actually quite strong.

I pesronally could have watched another 10 minutes of the Battle of Azunilbizar and the history of the dwarves.

I am particularly looking forward to seeing Billy Conolly's Dain. I hope that there are more heroes and troop types in his armies to add to the range.

One of the problems is, however, that the movie is not in fact intended for children.
Indeed, most countries have the first part with an age requirement of 12 and older (just like the LotR trilogy). As such, I'd expect a more adult and believable setting, and an atmosphere rather more dark and threatening.
The biggest problem now is that not only does the Hobbit not fit well with the generally more serious tone of the Trilogy, but the series itself will probably change quite dramatically - for while the entire Company escaped easily from Goblin Town (without ever being in any sensible danger - aside from Bilbo I suppose!), the Battle of the Five Armies will of course prove to be a good deal more dangerous for several of its members.
The book may have been written with a younger audience in mind, but the apparent cruelty of the goblins there felt more real than anything I've seen or heard in the first film.

It's funny you mention the apparent cruelty in the book. I'm re-reading it on my Nook right now before I read it to my youngest son. He's only 5 and takes things pretty much at heart. The two parts of the story I want to pay extra attention to were the goblins and the BoFA and I found the Goblins (and even Beorn) are given some pretty agressive traits and descriptions but amazingly Tolkien delivers them in a way that the young reader can absorb. I'm just hitting Flies and Spiders so it will be next week before I'm up to the battle.

And I know that the movie is not targeted at youth per se, but the source material is light in nature so I wasn't expecting the movie to take itself TOO seriously. I was disappointed with the Goblin Town chase scene, but far more disappointed with the portrayal of Radagast (he's a flippin' Maiar for goodness sake!). I can enjoy Sylvester McCoy's portrayal and the Goblin Town scenes if I just keep a mental separation that this is how PJ is presenting a children's story in a sort of middle ground with what he gave us in LotR. But if I come from the LotR direction they bug me...if this makes sense.

I also am glad to hear the concern about the change of tone over the three films. This bugs me with the Star Wars prequels (which I've got issues with anyway but won't divert here). Episode I is very light and easy for even young children to watch, though you may need to coach through the death and funeral of Qui Gon. But the second movie has the scene with Anakin and the Sandpeople that is pretty rough for young children and the third has several intense parts including the obvious (but not shown) murder of children by a trusting person. My kids can watch the original three without problem, but I won't let them watch Episode III until they are older which is pretty bad film design IMO considering Ep I is so pathetically child focused. In this time when sequels come out one year later rather than three years later as when I was growing up it's important to have some thought on the maturity of your audience over the course of the films.

I hope parents that have started young children on H:AUJ are taking the chance to preview the second and third films before taking the kids in...just in case.

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I saw LotR when I was 9 and it didn't seem too mature for my age. That might of course just be me, but I thought the Hobbit could get away with a PG rating. While heads did roll at some parts, there wasn't any blood.

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I feel like the people complaining about the "tone" of the Hobbit compared to LotR are ignoring the context of the story of Middle Earth.
The Hobbit is a journey/quest to reclaim a homeland, there's obsticals to be sure but there's hope for a brighter future. In LotR there is none of that. Its a fight for survival, rise or die type of story, I actually feel all the movies have captured their atmosphere well. On the LotR movies I'm very pleased that there wasn't an overly dark nihilism to it, which I believe is all too common in todays cinema

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There is a definite contrast, and essentially the first film was pretty much setting the snowball rolling! The second from the trailer looks fantastic and I have to confess that I am seriously excited!

I actually totally loved goblin town and the goblins...
it was my favourite part of the film...

This may contain a spoiler, but only if you have not read the book. And I may be completely wrong in my deduction.

I suspect that big bow/catapult is what gets used as a dragon defenestrator.

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I actually reckon we'll see Bard get behind the big crossbow-thing ... seems to be more likely to bring down Smaug than a single arrow

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Isn't defenestration throwing someone out of a window?!?!? That would be quite the change from the book!

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As in the Defenestration of Bran Stark as performed by Jaime Lannister, yes.

By the way, at one point in the trailer is this catapult, must've missed it, only watched 2.5 times?

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

It's more of a ballista actually, and it's at 1:39.

Oh, that is the oddest ballista ever. Wonder what that's doing there.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Conjecture all round, but I suspect accurate?