Black Knight profile coming in 3...2...1...

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My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/

The Black Nights first line somewhat notably was "None Shall Pass!".

Since no-one else seems willing to take up the challenge...





And yes, I stayed up past midnight to write this.

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My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/

I think that's a different kettle of fish... I'm talking about what is written in the books and not printed on them...

John Howe (whom I admire!) has interpreted Morgoths black armour as plate armour. This is not consistent with the books, but was a design choice that even made its way to the movies (all the Ringwraiths wear gothic armour underneath their blankets, as well).
Moreover, Morgoth is depicted in armour that contains 15th century gothic elements... Even for a Teutonic knight with great helmet (and kite shield...^^) that would be an odd combination. John Howe has a great knowledge about medieval warfare and he sometimes uses later designs for his evil characters... Aren't there even Orcs with sallets?
He never uses these designs on his human characters though... For those he stays consistent with the books to make them more believable.
Since there is no evidence how a Ringwraith, Orc or Dwarf looked like in the 10th century, there is some elbowroom for the fantasy races of Middle-earth. Furthermore the fantasy races, especially the Hobbits have many modern features that couldn't be explained by a strictly historic view on Middle-earth. Nevertheless I would still stick to the Dark Ages, the Edda and the sagas as the framework of Middle-earth depictions...

Please don't misunderstand me. If you try to recreate something John Howe, Allan Lee, WETA or Brian Sibley did, it will of course look awesome. But my experiences with fantasy artwork are that there are many other artists out there who are willing to call their painting anything the customer wants just to sell it... They don't have necessarily read the texts...
If you have doubts about the sources of the artists or you want to create something unique, please consult the books... (It's kind of: W.W.T(olkien).D. )

@Ondoher: Perfect enemy for a bunch of angry hobbits...

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Jomada - Adventures in Middle-earth

Hahaha, nice!

Sorry, would have posted my profile if I'd been following the thread later last night - I wrote one up a while back to go along with the Monty Python scenario which I think was published in Wargames Illustrated a while back. I'll post a thread in the house rules forum, to not get too distracted in this thread.

Also thought I'd toss out that I had considered using Gripping Beast Teutonics as alternative Black Numenoreans in the past, particularly those with the bat-winged or horned helmets. Might still do something similar with Fireforge plastics.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Of course, of the three big Tolkien illustrators, Alan Lee's vision is the one which shaped much of the film's "Organic" look. Lee illustrates things as being from the 8th century, Howe (who is an expert on armour) goes for a 13th century look. The film managed to blend the two visions in fascinating ways, generally giving the bad guys Howe imagery and the good guys Lee imagery (except, well, Gondor). Naismith is somewhere between the two.

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Dreaming of getting back to painting...any month now.

I have never bought anything from them, but this range seems like a great range of substitutes for LOTR miniatures: http://www.sgmm.biz/Bloody-Day-28mm-Fantasy_c_23.html

They even have a not-fellowship: http://www.sgmm.biz/SO1-Fantasy-Heroes_p_362.html but it includes two wizards and no dwarf.

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“A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.”

Nice find! The wolfriders look great! The Hillmen might be great substitures for Dunlendings and the Not-Fellowship looks awesome!!

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Check out my WIP: www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24858

Wow! Never seen those before... yet some of those minis are the most imagination-accurate models I've ever seen! Especially the elves and a few of the dwarves. If only they weren't from the US... shipping would cost a bomb

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'Though my memory's fading, I remember two things very clearly: I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior'
-John Newton

Yeah!

Those are the Vendel range mentioned by Spodulike and myself on page 2 - I love those minis! I have yet to actually buy any, but many of them look like a great fit for the LOTR range. If I hadn't already painted up two blue wizards, I'd probably use the two from the adventurers set as them. I'll probably get the set anyways - always on the lookout for more hobbits, and I'm sure I'll be able to use the others one way or another.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Vendel: I have not bought any since the range was sold to the US, so cannot comment on current production quality or availability.

I can say that I have bought and painted the Hillmen, Orcs, Goblins and Wolf Riders and have the Elves too. The range paints like a dream. I love the Dark Age look and the faces, particularly the Orcs, have lots of character. They are chunky, but humanoid, Orcs, so a refreshing and decisive move away from the cartoon style of Warhammer and its derivatives.

I really like the Fireforge conversions. Better than the GW Cone knights and doubtless a fraction of the cost.

The debate about armour and helms throws up an interesting question. It shows the variety of interpretations and styles that are possible and there is certainly no one right answer.

There is a long tradition of depicting the knights of Dol Amroth as medieval knights, complete with caparison or trapper covering the horse. GW adopted this with their Cone Knights, which is fair enough; they just did it badly.

I used to debate interpretation endlessly on TLA in years past (until grumpy GW loyalists ground every last ounce of fun out of it) and it can be a fascinating subject.

Fin, I think, has the point. To sum it up very briefly, JRRT set a Sage Age tone with the Rohirrim and his descriptions of armour tend to be consistent with that. Gondor, Rohan wear mail. There is some limited plate (a burnished vambrance famously crops up). The haradrim wear scale or lammelar.

Gondor does have a more early medieval feel due to JRRT's own language and description. The most obvious example is that some Gondorians at least wore a surcoat over their chainmail. Not only the style but the word itself (Anglo-French) is suggestive more of the Middle than the Dark Ages.

In primary world terms this description does suggest something like the Second Crusade/Knightly Orders/Teutonics (see Gripping Beast and Fireforge).

Personally, I don't take the analogy that far. I tend to think of open face helms (Dark Age/Late Roman) with mail, greaves and vambrances. Gondorians may wear a tabard or surcoat on top.

I also don't buy into the idea of caparisoned horses in the case of Dol Amroth. Their horses are noted for their appearance as Greys, a distinction much less noticeable if covered by trappers and no such covering is mentioned. I think the confusion stems from JRRT's description of the knights "in full harness". He is not here talking of the horses, I think, besides which I don't think a horse's harness (bridle etc) would normally be understood to include any kind of horse cloth (shabraque, trapper etc). JRRT is, in fact, here referring to the armour of the knights. Harness is an archaic term for such. He refers elsewhere to the Harradrim's jingling harness, intending the same meaning.

That is not to say that it would be inappropriate to have caparisoned Dol Amroth horses. It is a valid and very attractive option given that early medieval feel (IMHO). If you are going for this particular interpretation, then I think the Fireforge figures make an absolutely excellent starting point, as the conversions convincingly demonstrate (IMHO).

John Howe is a War of the Roses nut. This is a different kettle of armour altogether. My own view is that, however great his contribution has been over the years, he did the films a disservice by talking the makers into all that plate armour. It means that Gondor looks like it is not merely a different culture from Rohan (who were, after all, given their armour technology by Gondor), but appears to exist in an altogether different century (IMHO).

Again, one can debate the whys and wherefores of this endlessly, but to be convincing a certain internal consistency is necessary to sustain the fictional world. This is hard enough in a world where Hobbits have barometers in their hallways but the Rohirrim haven't even cottoned on to window-glass. I, for one, can do without Renaissance Gondorians clanking around making it even harder.

Let's not forget these Alternate Dwarves http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.ph ... ry&path=98

Glad you posted those! I had seen pictures of them on Warseer but could not, for the life of me, remember what manufacturer made them. I'll file that info away for future reference - thanks!

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

I was thinking about using Wargames Factory unarmored Saxons as rank and file Ruffians for my Scouring the Shire themed lists for a 750 point tournament in November. I made the post mentioning that on my local forums and one of the guys who normally posts there absolutely blasted me for it.

Eh, as long as the tournament organizers are OK with you using non-GW minis, then it's really none of his business what you put on the table as long as it has a reasonable likeness to the character/profile that it's representing.

In the scenario proposed, I think unarmored dark ages warriors (Saxon, Viking, whatever) are a perfectly reasonable substitute for the GW ruffians.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

I love the alternatives being suggested, in particular metal figures as alternatives to the plastic toys GW are peddling to the masses . I personally am (slowly) putting together 'only metal aloud' factions of figures and this will be quite a challenge, so am hoping this thread will continue with lots more great suggestions for alternatives (where GW Metals have now gone OOP or ruined by finecast or never existed as Metals in the first place).
I love the alternative Metal Rohan Riders and foot troops (e.g from Musketeer) and Perry's alternatives for Haradrim Raiders and Artizan's alternatives for Warriors of Harad etc. Doing this makes for a great hobby-within-a-hobby and keeps alive my enthusiasm for the LOTR SBG. Hey, I might even coin the phrase 'Old-Ringer' (ala OldHammer) and see where it takes me!!!!!

I know my SIG says Hunter Orcs on the bench - I've binned them - just too horrid to work on and paint - and the KoMT are awaiting some metal horses from eBob

Keep up the great contributions and I'll certainly share my findings.

Mungo

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On The Bench : Metal Easterlings, Metal Serpent Riders

Wait, you BINNED you hunter orcs?? :O
Like.. thrown them away????????

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Check out my WIP: www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24858

^ No, no...not literally thrown them out - colloquially speaking 'binned' as in aborted the project, cast aside, gave up on.... sorry did not mean to cause unnecessary heart flutters

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On The Bench : Metal Easterlings, Metal Serpent Riders

Personally I feel that they are some of the best miniatures that G.W. has released! Particularly in terms of detail and realistic proportion. I took a look at your gallery, and frankly your painting skills are frankly excellent! Your dislike surprises me, particularly as I have found painting them very enjoyable!
Go-on, have another go?

They look good miniature-wise, but there are some points that bother me: silly hair, silly abs and some strange weapons. They may be some of the best miniatures quality-wise, but not design-wise!

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Check out my WIP: www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24858