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 Post subject: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:16 am 
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Big congratulations to Hashut for ending his "no victories" streak and also for ending my undefeated streak too!

Ste and Hashut both came to mine today and we got through 3 x 500pts games. First two were Ste vs Hashut, the latter experimenting all heroes lists whilst Ste tried his mordor forces for the first time.

Hashut's experiment failed miserably in the first game although many orcs were slain! But Lords of Battle in the next game proved almost unwinnable for Ste's Orc horde.

I finally joined in on the final game and although once again my horse lords smashed their dwarven foes, it was done too soon and the game ended after a roll of a two once he was broken, but with 8 models in the objective to my three, he took the game 8-6! Congrats pal!

It felt a premature end so we played on to the death, the Rohirrim gaining their revenge and slaying everything under 5 foot tall. But the defeat was already inflicted as Hashut enjoyed his first two victories since forming our little club!

Looking forward to Thursday, all are welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:42 am 
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Indeed! The all-heroes lists came about from my idea of playing The Seven Knights scenario, taken from Warhammer Fantasy, based on the tale of The Seven Samurai (of which I was reminded by the film Ironclad recently, which has Seven Knights defend a castle with a handful of it's household guard). Just thought it would be interesting.

So my first game was To the Death! with Ste and I wanted to test out my new Elendil and Isildur, then thought I'd try to keep thematic and chose Legolas and Thranduil from the models I had with me (I figured they MAY have been alive when they were. I don't know, I'm not hugely clued up on LotR :( ) and the guys convinced me to forgo the last bit of theme and take the new Balin profile as it was all I had points left for. The elves died pretty dang swiftly after Elendil burnt all his Might in a silly display of desperation. Poorly built list and well played by Ste, making use of swarming me (especially since Isildur was running around invisible!).

Second game was another attempt at the scenario, but testing out a more familiar force (Dwarf characters only!) and being a little wiser with building it (still thematic due to the Dwarfs used, but mostly coincidental). Ste changed to use some Fell Warg Riders and such, but the combination Balin, Dain, Gimli, Dwarf King and King's Champion proved FAR too much - especially since we CHOSE Lords of Battle due to movement limitations and it being the only scenario we hadn't really played in the group: Ste then decided to play long edge against long edge (as opposed to short against short, like in the book) because of my movement. I think the fact my list was all heroes (in a game that favours heroes) and the close distance, plus lack of bows (he had two which died first) meant it was a victory for me. Although, I was secretly happy when he killed the Dwarf King (unpainted model: shame on me :( ).

Against Thermo in game 3, Ste chose for us to play The High Ground. My list was a bit more practical and I decided to test out Murin and Drar (very good guys to have) and the Khazad Gaurd. Considering my shield-Dwarfs were Iron Hills Veterans and I HATE HATE HATE two-handed weapons, it meant the Khazad Guard were kind of obsolete (an extra point, without the option of shielding...). The win here was more of luck than anything else, but my tactic did work (even if my shooting largely didn't!): started as usual with a warband on the hill and one countering the enemy, then just fell back as Thermo stood at the edge of range sniping my non-archers whilst my archers couldn't retaliate. Then one turn of Gusting Winds and he surged forwards. Then things started to die on both sides. Very fun game and it did feel like the game cheated us out of a proper finish, despite a fair and square, planned, but slightly lucky win, so we carried on. Even so, I reaped a fairly decent toll on the riders in the process of my demise.

Learning points:
All hero list might be a good choice for dwarfs when not worrying about capturing several objectives.
Focus less on damage prevention and more on attaining objectives.
Murin and Drar with Iron Hills Veterans upgrades are extremely good.
Khazad Guard aren't worth it in SBG for me - more than before due to the IHV.
Start considering a thematic allied cavalry or including the Grey Company for a rank of spears and bows behind my shield-Dwarfs wall.

Extremely fun day though!
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Hashut you should go buy Radagast. Balin leading some Grimhammers/erebor dwarf spearmen would also be good. Balin lets you re-roll priority - meaning there is more likelihood your Rohan opponent will have to waste might on heroic's. Also grimhammers have throwing weapons, and more importantly bash, meaning they can knock enemy cavalry to the floor + off their horses.
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:09 pm 
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I have Radagast, but I don't have the new rulebook and am massively not a fan of magic in SBG.

Feel free to send some Grimhammers and Erebor Dwarfs over though ;P

Surely old Balin is better considering his ability to both survive and decimate? Even more so since New Balin can only re-roll three times a game and even that isn't necessarily useful (used it twice before he died and one of which was an equally poor roll :P ).
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Magic is fundamental (imo) in SBG. A handy transfix, panic steed, black dart etc can be game changing when used at the right time.

Remember thorins company were all designed with each other in mind. Obviously a tactic they thought of was to keep bombur close to balin to regen his will points.

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:59 pm 
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Touche, new Balin is cheap (half the cost) and can lead spear dwarves/grimhammers.
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:18 am 
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SouthernDunedain: Really? When it's so sparse AND so easy to stop? Indeed, it can be game-changing, but I'd never base a strategy on the use of magic in SBG and, as a result, it's too cost-prohibitive to be of use to me.

Indeed, having a couple of the guys together would be a good choice, but I'm unable to use tactics like that because 1) I'm still trying to get hold of them and 2) I don't have their rules.
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:48 am 
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Thermo wrote:
Ste and Hashut both came to mine today and we got through 3 x 500pts games.


Sounds like you're getting a good handle on the rules...no more 8 hour 1000 point games? :)
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:40 am 
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whafrog wrote:
Thermo wrote:
Ste and Hashut both came to mine today and we got through 3 x 500pts games.


Sounds like you're getting a good handle on the rules...no more 8 hour 1000 point games? :)


Haha I seem to be getting there! Thanks for all your help, support and advice!

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:52 am 
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Magic IS pretty important. Also why the hate on the Khazad's? To get veterans you need to spend 150 points on two heroes who won't necessarily pay their pts back AND 2pts per model that might not even be necessary depending on your opponents defence value.

Then yet again, different things work for different people, I like Khazad's cos they don't make me field another expensive hero, but I can see they ate ultimately cheaper if you like M&D.
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:50 pm 
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SuicidalMarsbar wrote:
Magic IS pretty important. Also why the hate on the Khazad's? To get veterans you need to spend 150 points on two heroes who won't necessarily pay their pts back AND 2pts per model that might not even be necessary depending on your opponents defence value.

Then yet again, different things work for different people, I like Khazad's cos they don't make me field another expensive hero, but I can see they ate ultimately cheaper if you like M&D.


I think Hashut doesn't like two handed weapons full stop and would rather take a dwarf with a shield all day long for cheaper. Can still do piercing strike if he wanted but no -1 on the duel roll for two handed... he'd rather win the fights...

That's his opinion, not mine by the way!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:05 pm 
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khazads dont have to go 2H though. Remember every model counts as having a hand weapon unless specified otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:19 pm 
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SouthernDunedain wrote:
khazads dont have to go 2H though. Remember every model counts as having a hand weapon unless specified otherwise.


Indeedy, but his point is that the extra points for the two handed aren't worth it and he can get a model with the same stats (-1 str) for a couple of points cheaper.

Again, not my opinion! I was keen to see the Khazad Guard in action, hence him fielding them on Monday :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Thermo wrote:
Indeedy, but his point is that the extra points for the two handed aren't worth it and he can get a model with the same stats (-1 str) for a couple of points cheaper.


That depends. Against normal goblins and orcs, against RoR, okay. The day you field Gondor or Morannons, those S4 Khazads will shine.
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:41 pm 
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As Thermo's tried to explain - the option for shielding is preferable tot he option for a two-handed weapon. Taking Murin & Drar means I'm saving a point per model, have the same strength and defence and better tactical options.

I have an intense dislike for two-handed weapons because the -1 Duel roll cost far outstrips the benefit of +1 to Wound, even more so when they're outnumbered. The Bodyguard rule doesn't come in enough to be worth the extra point per model (I.E. 10 Khazad Guard aren't as useful to me as 11 Iron Hills Veterans with shields).

It's not the Khazad Guard themselves I dislike, but the fact I can get the same thing for cheaper and with a better optional use (shielding over two-hander).

SouthernDunedain: I know you don't have to use two-handers (and actively avoided doing so! I said to Thermo that he should assume I'm not and even when I ay I am to question me on it.): may as well save a pint and have the option of shielding instead of spend an extra one and have an option I will never, ever, ever, ever use. Ever.

SuicidalMarsBar: I'm not denying that it's important, I am denying it's ability to be used as the basis of a strategy without spending far too many points on it to ensure you can.

whafrog: Again, Iron Hills Veterans do the same thing, but cheaper and can double their attacks in a pickle. Khazad Guard have the option to use something that means they're even less likely to win a fight and I'd have less of them. Khazads are for WotR not SBG ;P
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:55 pm 
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Plus the bodyguard rule is really helpful. Not just for when you're brtoken, but also to make sure you get the charge against all those terror causing monsters.
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:33 pm 
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That i agree with, the wizards are expensive, and only Saruman is a safe choice to pay his points back. Although there are a few decent low level casters, may favourite of which is probably Arwen. Gildor is pretty great too, and he gives you the option to hire some Usain Bolt -esque elves.
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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Congrats on the win Hashut (and ending Thermo's streak! :P), Murin and Drar are something I'd like to try out, just haven't used them in Warbands yet (Iron Hill's Veterans with Shields are the same points as Khazad Guard by the way 8))

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Chris GoM wrote:
Congrats on the win Hashut (and ending Thermo's streak! :P), Murin and Drar are something I'd like to try out, just haven't used them in Warbands yet (Iron Hill's Veterans with Shields are the same points as Khazad Guard by the way 8))


Stupid objectives! From now on I refuse to play anything but To The Death!!

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 Post subject: Re: The Streak Ends!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:32 am 
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theavenger001: I'd agree with you if I ever faced Terror-causing enemies. I'd still half disagree though - Dwarf Courage is good enough to be of no concern and a horn or Erkenbrand can make it a moot point anyway. As it stands, I disagree because of Dwarf Courage and a lack of Terror-causing enemies (for the most part) in my opponents' armies ;) It should be noted that I've not dissuaded others from using them in their army threads because I know it's specific to me.

SuicidalMarsBar: Indeed, but for the magic to be worthwhile, I'd have to load up on the low level spellcasters. I'd love to have Usain Bolt Elves, but I think I'd rather just have Rohirrim (bows, cavalry, higher defence, shielding and an extra 2" - everyone always wants extra inches!).

ChrisGoM: Thanks and it HAD to be me to beat him in the end ;) As for Murin and Drar - they're best against orcs/uruk-hai/goblins because of Kalazal, but they're decent to use anyway. I say test them out and see if they work. However, it should be noted that it's worthwile to do the Iron Hills Veteran upgrades to make use of the heroes' cost. You are quite correct regarding price, I seem to have dropped the shield from their cost mentally, lol :D I'm going to check my list to see if I accidentally cheated, but don't think I did and doubt it would've affected the game (especially as I;d rather have had shield-dwarfs than Khazads - most of their combats were the ones I wanted to shield in! lol :D ).

Thermo: feel free - bring on the characters!
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