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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:12 pm 
Loremaster
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They look like very nice miniatures, but aren't they in a larger scale than GW's LOTR range? 32mm as opposed to 28mm. They also look more like collectors miniatures than gaming miniatures. Something to bear in mind if anyone plans to use them to game with.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Mithril Miniatures are very close to GW's scale. They have a very individual style though that would not always mix too smooth with GW. Since I have a small MERP and METW collection at home and grew up with these illustrations, I really love this style.
Their Dunlendings are really great and much closer to the books than the PJ and GW adaptions. Also you might notice that they gave the warriors of Dale some Easterling styled armour before it was cool... :-D

Their Fellowship range deserves some attention as well. There are are some lovely looking character models... Girion of Dale, Harad Chieftains, Dorwinion wine merchants, Ringwraiths... and of course all those roleplaying characters, that will come in handy, if you plan some really individual campaign games.

But yes, Mithril Miniatures is not so much about gaming anymore... Most of their customers might be collectors... The days that I battled a Minas Tirith SBG army consisting only of Mithril Miniatures are long gone...

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:15 am 
Elven Warrior
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Yes, Mithril's range is pretty compatible with GW - though Mithril uses rectangular moulded on bases. Which I cut off. :p

As for historical figures...ya know. Well. Tolkien assembled his legendarium from bits of Byzantine history (Minas Tirith, Wainriders), Gothic history/saga (Eomer and Eowyn), the Celts (Dunlendings), elements of Anglo-Saxon English history (Rohirrim), with a bunch of other clever flourishes.

So, how about this? When you use historical miniatures? Personalise them. Absolutely in the spirit of Middle-earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:29 pm 
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A happy medium can be found by using histiorical figures with touches of
Middle Earth mixed in. Check my WIP projects for examples of this.

No one and I repeat, no one, KNOWS what JRR had in mind when he envisioned the armies of Middle Earth. What he saw with his mind's eye
will never be known. Only what he hinted at on paper. What played out in his head will never be known.

I collect my armies for my own amusement and not to adhere to someone else's idea of what the "correct" look of Middle Earth should be. If you enjoy using historical substitutes, then go right ahead.

Tolkien was all about opening up the mind to new possibilities. Not restricting them.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:20 pm 
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OK guys the excessive quoting has got to stop. I'm pretty sure we've been over this numerous times accoss the boards and each time we all agree and yet it continues.

One word answers such as +1 , Agreed, and word will be deleted alongside posts that quote entire converstaions - by all means quote the part of the conversation you are referring to or if it is a long piece cut and replace the bulk of the quote with "SNIP" as was decided previously.
Not that difficult guys come on.....

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Yes we need to keep threads potentially readable and some people aren't helping with this. Also I've had to edit a couple of posts for words that are not appropriate for our youngest members.

Most people can post so their grannies could read it and not blush. I expect the same of the few of you who insist on slipping into more adult -themed words. If you are annoyed or a bit peeved say so in a way that are appropriate for a young audience please.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:01 pm 
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I wonder if people might start making card versions of minis or use bases with pictures if they keep going on like this. I'm thinking of the BGiME cardboard cut-outs here.

I know people love minis but just how much if the price keeps going up and up ?

If it's a game with a friend why not use anything that means you can play the game.
This seems quite reasonable to me ?

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:31 pm 
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I favour an Heroic/Saga Age aesthetic for Middle Earth (Fantasy Dark Age, essentially) and I have found historic figure ranges catering for this period to be excellent sources of figures. Of these, Gripping Beast has to be mentioned for the quality and the breath of the range.

I started using non-GW figures pretty early on; whenever I found that the GW range/the Films did not provide a convincing interpretation of a particular troop-type. Now, with the price hikes, I view non-GW figures as my starting point, rather than as merely a means to complement the GW range.

Other figures I have found useful are:

Old Glory: Their Romano-British cavalry make excellent Rohirrim and scale up well beside the GW Riders of Rohan. Incidentally, when considering compatibility, I find that "proxy" figures often work better with GW figures than GW figures sometimes do with each other, e.g. Rohan Royal Guard and ROR/WOR.

Vendel: A criticism often levelled against these figures is that they are too chunky next to GW. The Dwarves are also a bit on the large side. They do have a shared heritage with the Gripping Beast historical range and for me they represented the first and only attempt to bring a sense of realism combined with a Dark Age aesthetic to a generic fantasy range. I like them and they paint like a dream; they are the figures I have most enjoyed painting, out of all the thousands ....
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Azog wrote:
I wonder if people might start making card versions of minis or use bases with pictures if they keep going on like this. I'm thinking of the BGiME cardboard cut-outs here.


Or Chess pieces...

People really ought to live and let live.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Some of Warlords Celts, Germanics and Dacians mixed with Gripping Beast Vikings and Saxons - that would make a horde or two. FireForge are bringing out more foot versions of their Templars and Teutonics that could substitute for Men (trim some of the weirder stuff off the helms).

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Here are some links to my men of Anfalas, by way of an example of using Dark Age historicals for Tolkien.

Some of the figures are modified. Golasgil has leather vambrances added. Some of the rank and file have had cuffed boots added. Some (I think of as the herdsmen) have fur doublets and boot tops. These are subtle, minor changes, that don't take too long.

In the main, I have relied on the paint scheme to make them distinctive. I generally use blues, greys and, for a contrasting colour, buff with Gondorians. Anfalas is the Langstrand, a long sea-shore. The three main colours represent the blue of the sky, the blue of the sea and the ochre of the sand and scrub of the shoreline.

First comes the lord Golasgil and his household. This simple description in the text evoked the image of a lord and his mail-clad hearth-guards. The figures are all Gripping Beast, so far as I can recall.

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=309&image_id=1459

Next are the huntsmen, herdsman and villagers, very much a fyrd contingent. There are plenty of suitable figures in the Gripping Beast range, but I used Old Glory (Romano-Brit infantry, if I recall), because I had a quantity lying around.

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=309&image_id=1460

The whole contingent pictured via the link below. I have mounted/remounted my forces on 1mm thick steel washers. These particular figures have a paving stone finish, as this is how I have chosen to base my Defenders of Minas Tirith.

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=309&image_id=1461
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:23 pm 
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SidTheSloth wrote:
On a similar topic, Would anyone happen to have any scale pictures of Perry's War of the roses 'bills and bows'?

With the way things are at the moment 40 miniatures for £18 is looking more and more attractive...


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Perry bill men or in my case my new non crappy axe men of lossarnavh with Forlong himself
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:23 pm 
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I haven't seen Conquest Games Normans mentioned yet, and in my opinion they could make good fiefdom troops or alternatives to Gondorians, if you're of that persuasion, as would Fireforge minis.

Perry's Sudanese Tribesmen (with bald heads) could make good Mahud alternatives.

It's also worth pointing out that historical minis don't need to be used exactly as they're packaged - converting, kit-bashing, or using them for parts can work out well too. Fin's Gondorians are a fine example of how just a little conversion work, and the right paint job, can pull the minis out of their historical context and make them look right at home in Middle-Earth. I'm currently converting some men of Pennath Gelin by replacing warriors of Minas Tirith's heads with more ornate hoplite helmets, to reflect the great wealth of that fiefdom. While I haven't attempted this last one, it did occur to me that Perry Zouaves with bare arms and shaggy heads wouldn't be half-bad as corsairs of Umbar, either.

As this thread indicates, historical miniatures can provide an abundance of alternatives for many human factions, but the actual fantasy races are a little harder to find good alternatives for (that generally fit the WETA/GW aesthetic). None the less, here are a few that migh work OK:

The aforementioned Vendel fantasy range (available from Sgt. Major Miniatures) is not bad at all, especially for dwarves and elves IMO. Their orcs and goblins are a bit cartoonier than the LOTR designs, but still much less so than a lot of fantasy miniatures.

Mirliton's Fantasy Range leans towards older, cartoonier minis, but some of the dwarves might be serviceable and the half-orcs would make good orcs or more lightly-armed uruk-hai.

Hasselfree have a few dwarves that would work (I'm thinking Russ, Benn, and the multi-part warriors), and they also sell orc heads on a sprue, which could be put on the bodies of some other minis.

For hobbits, I think the pages Halfling House Scale Guide and Halfling Showcase are your best resources, and are fairly comprehensive in terms of what models are on the market and which will fit in with the LOTR range.

From Old Glory, you've got Terronus, Isle of Goblins, some of which appear to be a good match for LOTR Moria goblins.

Reaper have tons of miniatures, mostly leaning towards heroic scale and maybe more suited for roleplaying, but there are some gems in there if you dig around that would be fine side-by-side with LOTR minis. The Grey Maiden always struck me as a good female high elf hero sculpt.

Lastly, while not my favorite minis on their own, I have seen some very convincing orc conversions using the Wargames Factory Orcs for parts (on either this site or TLA), and they are very, very cheap.

I'm sure there are many, many more out there, but the more realistically proportioned LOTR minis can make it difficult to find other compatible fantasy ranges.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:01 pm 
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I haven't seen Conquest Games Normans mentioned yet, and in my opinion they could make good fiefdom troops or alternatives to Gondorians, if you're of that persuasion, as would Fireforge minis.

That's because you have not looked at my WIPS which feature both of the above and more. Take a gander.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24307

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24322

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24332

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24341

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24362


viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25186

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25174

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24685
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:15 pm 
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I had seen your conversions before, they look good! Like Fin's stuff, I think they show off how easy it can be to separate historical miniatures from the period they're intended for, and make them fit Middle-Earth. I didn't see Conquest mentioned in your post, though, and since this thread is for listing alternate minis, it seems sensible to have a mention and a link directly in this thread to the figures themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:32 pm 
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@Nevinsrip: Haven't seen your minis before, but they really look great.

I wouldn't have recommended the Fireforge Knights to anyone before I had seen your conversions. The Ebob heads and the signature GW shields help a lot to make them fit in. :yay:
Nevertheless they are a good example, why you shouldn't use historical miniatures without any conversion work...

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Fin wrote:
@Nevinsrip: Haven't seen your minis before, but they really look great.

I wouldn't have recommended the Fireforge Knights to anyone before I had seen your conversions. The Ebob heads and the signature GW shields help a lot to make them fit in. :yay:
Nevertheless they are a good example, why you shouldn't use historical miniatures without any conversion work...


Shouldn't? I don't think there's a right or a wrong when it comes to a hobby and personal preference. You don't like mixing them and that's fine, but that said there are many Anglo Saxon models on foot that could pass for Rohirrim if painted like the GW versions. Even then that might be considered a conversion due to the alternate paint scheme.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:14 pm 
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RangerofTheNorth wrote:
You don't like mixing them and that's fine, but that said there are many Anglo Saxon models on foot that could pass for Rohirrim if painted like the GW versions.

You're right, of course! The Anglo Saxons are perhaps the most prominent exception to that rule. They are the archetype of Tolkien's Rohirrim and you wouldn't find any miniatures that resemble these warriors better.

Same applies for any people where Tolkien hasn't been to specific about their fashion and equipment. I have seen multiple examples of warriors of Dale which all seemed reasonable, but I still like WETA's Rus-design...

Problematic are those cases where the original miniature is not appropriate for Middle-earth based on a lack of reference. The Fireforge knights are such a case... The existence of heater style shields and great helms in Middle-earth can not be backed up by the literature (or any other canon source...). If Nevinsrip hadn't converted them, I would have considered them an unlucky choice. The conversions added a lot of Middle-earth flavour. :yay:

Personal preference is of course a factor of wide scope... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Agreed To an extent as far as the movie designs go you're dead on....but que John Howes intepretation of Morgoth
Image
& The Witch King via the same. Image
I think there is a pretense here. Those are official book covers. Morgoth did have a huge shield to me he looks like a giant black Teutonic knight I think IMHO that the movie designs are off and that middle earth is a mix of the middle ages appearance wise. Wraiths and dark lords in bucket helmets and great shields, most of Gondorian armor is chainmail with a surcoat, only difference is the helmet to a traditional crusader look. Then you've got Anglo looking Rohirrim. Etc. the tough part is marrying the movie verse with that.
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 Post subject: Re: Alternatives to GW miniatures?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:04 pm 
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