Played a small game last night, just trying out a few aspects of the new Hobbit rules.

It was memorable sadly only for the freakish demize of my ringwraith; shot by a dwarf archer, who hit the armoured steed and killed it, I then failed my Fallen Rider test on a roll of a 1, hit the ground and evaporated! Yes that S3 hit hitting the ground , resulted in a 6 followed by a 4 to cause a wound, and I then failed 2 fate rolls... I worked the odds out as being about 5000 to 1! Well thats pretty typical of my luck...

But I digress...

The issue I wanted to raise was an interpretation of the rules governing control zones and charging (note this is not specific to new Hobbit rules).

What was described to me was the ability to perform what was called a sliding charge... which meant the following is correct and allowable within the rules:



So to clarify; man starts his move at A, and declares charge to orc directly ahead, moves to position B entering the orcs control zone, he then completes his charge move, continuing to now move freely through the orcs control zone, and may ignore nearby enemy models control zones to complete his charge move, finishing in position C.

It should be noted that the mans position at B, can fall a few mm's short of the orc models base, allowing this lateral movement without contacting orc models base, until position C is reached.

IS THIS CORRECT?

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www.scottswargaming.blogspot.com

Nope.

I'm pretty sure as soon as a model is in base contact with an enemy model you can't move either of them any further for that turn.

OK but what if the Man does not contact the orcs base until position C?
In other words can he 'breach' and then move through the orcs control zone and finally contact the orcs base at position C?

thus:



Is this a legal / correct move?

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www.scottswargaming.blogspot.com

I'm pretty sure it's not legal since you can't enter his zone without charging

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My wip viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25381&start=0

Yeah, what the guy above me said. That wouldn't be allowed. Instead of making the man go to the right of the orc to get behind him, he can always go to the left instead as long as there's room for the base (and he doesn't enter a control zone of course).

Hmmm...

what my mate was trying to state was that, ...having declared a charge... and having entered the charged models control zone, you could continue through this control zone to a position beyond, where you will finally contact the charged models base,... and whilst doing this, because you have decaled a charge against the first model, you can ignore further control zones that you enter on your way to final contact point.

I didn't feel this was correct.

My thoughts were that once you 'breached' an enemy models control zone, because you were charging it, from that point on you would take the shortest possible route to contact the charged models base.

Should you wish to charge two enemy models at the same time then you simply line up your charge such that you breach both enemy model control zones at the same time, and then moving forward by shortest distance would then contact both bases at same time. (thats just the way circles work)

I hope that all makes sense.

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www.scottswargaming.blogspot.com

I'm sure that it is a legal move.

I'm just not so sure that it's legal with the other orc being there. I don't think the rules are that detailed.

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My old WIP thread - http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16246&start=0

I agreed with your final thoughts jscottbowman

But so many players state that the "sliding" charge is a legal move, in my opinion that make the game too fast and chaotic (too many trapped men)

Btw if you're not playing competitions you can according with your opponent at the start of the Game (cause the rulebook is not that clear), that resolves a lot of problems

The whole point was that the other orc had to be there for this to actually be a problem. If the orc on the right wasn't there the man could just go around the right without worrying about any control zones, then once at the back of the first orc he can then enter its control zone and charge. This is assuming it has a long enough move. So yes i guess your sorta right it is legal, as long as you don't enter the control zone of any orc until your at the point that you want to charge.

Also if you got one man to attack each orc, you could then have a third man go in between the orcs and attack one of them from behind. Because controls for models disappear when they're in combat.

So yeah..

I think I remember a huge discussion on this on TLA a while ago. We play that it's legal.
- Once you enter a model's control zone you must charge that model.
- It does not say that you have to take the shortest route to charge that model in the rulebook.
- Once you are charging someone you ignore control zones (iirc)

Thus, this 'sliding' charge is legal.


I'll take a look at the rulebook to make sure my above points are all correct, but as far as I remember they are...

*edit* Here's a link to the TLA thread. From a quick look it seems like they came to the same conclusion as me. (though I just skimmed the first page...)

http://www.thelastalliance.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4355&hilit=charging

It's on page 23 of the Hobbit rules:

"The third rule is that when a charging model enters a Control Zone, he may ignore the Control Zone of other nearby models to continue charging his original target."

The key word is "ignore", so your move is legal.

It's a legal move, the attacking model only has to halt when bases touch and other control zones are ignored.

Warriors often "dance" around each other when engaging in melee in film, for example, so think of it along those lines. If you are worried about moves like this you could try to be sure your models don't have enough room between them for the 'slide' but as mentioned he could have just slid around the other side otherwise.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Oh well, if its correct then so be it...

I must admit it doesnt feel right;... as just by declaring a charge it seems I can run through any control zones I wish so long as I end up somewhere touching the first model whose zone I first entered.

It might be good if we got some kind of formal nod from GW about this... for example if they included something along the lines of the diagrams I offered, then it would be crystal clear what can be done during a charge...

Thanks for your thoughts and replies.

I guess I will just have to adjust my playing style... which may thus benefit my potentially outnumbering forces of evil

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www.scottswargaming.blogspot.com

This only works once battle lines have degraded a lot, or if you engage in a loose formation though. If the base can't slide by without touching someone else, they can't do it.

I am truly shocked that once you enter a zone of control you would slide around an opponent 2mm away from them and call that a charge into contact!

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[url]http://wargamesdiary.wordpress.com[/url]

That's a stupid rule...

I have put this to GW GameFAQ, linking this post thread.

If I get a reply, I'll pass it on...

I would be nice to hear it from the 'horses mouth'... I sometimes wonder if what they indend by a rule, actually comes out somewhat differently, once they try and put it down in English, and people start pulling that statement to pieces under the microscope...

Since I have got back into gaming LOTR and I am aware of tournaments up and coming next year in my locale, I'd like to have this sorted officially before I do anything more about it...

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www.scottswargaming.blogspot.com

If your opponent is leaving holes like that, that's an issue of itself, sometimes due to priority you can't help it, but don't let yourself get slid in on, unless you now have a nice troll or ent to move into that combat or a knight, and two step his sliding butt right into the dirt. "come on in!" "oh sorry I subsequently charged you now you're trapped, thanks!"