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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:36 pm 
Craftsman
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watcher in the water has been posted on ebay if anybody wants it.... still £44inc. postage so probs not worth it tbh
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Someone else may have already mentioned this as I haven't worked my way through all of this thread but what about the price of those corpses? I just looked at them on the GW website and its £18 for 8!!! Thats awful value.
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:32 am 
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CaptainOfTheWhiteTower wrote:
Someone else may have already mentioned this as I haven't worked my way through all of this thread but what about the price of those corpses? I just looked at them on the GW website and its £18 for 8!!! Thats awful value.


:yay:

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Last edited by Pindergorn on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:42 am 
Elven Warrior
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CaptainOfTheWhiteTower wrote:
Someone else may have already mentioned this as I haven't worked my way through all of this thread but what about the price of those corpses? I just looked at them on the GW website and its £18 for 8!!! Thats awful value.


What a waste of money, it is cheaper to buy some damaged miniatures from ebay and use them as corpses :x

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:23 am 
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Chris wrote:
CaptainOfTheWhiteTower wrote:
Someone else may have already mentioned this as I haven't worked my way through all of this thread but what about the price of those corpses? I just looked at them on the GW website and its £18 for 8!!! Thats awful value.


What a waste of money, it is cheaper to buy some damaged miniatures from ebay and use them as corpses :x


A self employed miniatures trader at Smoggycon 2011 last november (a gaming convention of everything from Osprey History books to 40K and LOTR SBG to Historical wargaming) had a great big tub of old second hand, mostly broken LOTR miniatures all tossed in together. I managed to fish out several unbroken miniatures, 12 assorted Mordor Orcs (to replace some of my old broken Orcs) and a few Warriors of Minas Tirith (bits fodder for conversions). And that was all for about £5 (I can't remember the price exactly but it was something like 3 minis for a £1).

I wish I could have gotten more, but I had a £60 budget and spent it mostly on Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory Anglo-Saxons. I did however, also pick up the Original Fellowship Box (always wanted it) for £5. :D

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:33 pm 
Kinsman
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They're finecast, which seems to be GW's justification for the price. The other problem is that unless you collect a bit of everything you probably wouldn't even use all of the corpses. Would be better if they'd made a couple of army specific releases (like all Gondor corpses and all Mordor corpses). Perhaps they will at a later date. I like the idea but I'm disappointed about the price and how its been done.

@ King Ondoher, I haven't been to a gaming convention in years. LOTR was still relatively new back then so I didn't pick up anything good but I know there are bargains to be had at them.
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Oh absolutely. I got 76 plastic Anglo Saxons for £40, and intend to proxy them as a pure Rohan Infantry force (ain't that a novelty? :rofl: ) once they're finished. For now though, they're just plain old Anglo Saxons for the Gripping Beast/Studio Tomahawk game SAGA.

...

Just checked, and to get an equivalent number of Warriors of Rohan from GW with the new packagin would be over £80. :shock:

CaptainOfTheWhiteTower wrote:
They're finecast, which seems to be GW's justification for the price. The other problem is that unless you collect a bit of everything you probably wouldn't even use all of the corpses. Would be better if they'd made a couple of army specific releases (like all Gondor corpses and all Mordor corpses). Perhaps they will at a later date. I like the idea but I'm disappointed about the price and how its been done.
.

That "justification" is complete Devlan Mud. Finecast is a cheaper and less durable material than the old tin alloy material. And there have been demonstrable and persistant issues over Quality Control. Until they completely perfect their Finecast manufacture process, they are offering an inferior product at an inflated price compared to what was previously on offer. It makes a mockery of their boast that they "make the best miniatures in the world".

Theres no other way of putting it. GW is cutting costs and raising prices, and the quality of their miniatures is suffering.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:45 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Got to read majority of the books today :)
Right, some changes I remember:

FREE PEOPLE:
Elves are good. Thranduil can upgrade all woodelf warriors to havea 2+ shoot value for two pts, his staff is now better, can cast natures wrath once a game
balin axe upgrade got cheaper by 10pts, if you take the duo-friend dwarfs, warriors/rangers can be upgraded to S4 for 2pts
If you take durin, you can buy what is effectively bodyguard rule for 2pts
Thinks thats about it that was WHOA
You can take tom and goldberry in normal games......

MEN AND STUFF
Rohan still the same, outriders aren't heroes.
the marksman dude re-rolls 1's, and if he slays a monster or hero gets his might replenished I think
Grey company are practicaly unplayable. You need 1 ranger/dunedain for every 4, but the ranger/dunedain CANNOT lead a warband, so you still need other characters..
Riders of the dead are cavalry! But they only have 1 character, the king, who still sucks.
Err.. think thats it

MORIA and ANGMAR
Cave drake got M/W/F, think its 1/3/1? Similar to that, and a 25pt rise
The stand on rock big hat character makes fury a 5+ rather than 6+ whilst he's alive (no range!), 5 pts cheaper than goblin king
prowlers and blackshields are 1pt more.
Gundabad shaman got the reroll 1's against dwarves and elves, which works with tremor..
spectres got blades of dead, and their ability cant make models move into combat.
For some reason in Moria the spiderqueen is a single character (cant lead warbands) but in Moria isn't... oh and costs 115 pts for same stats and rules as before, spiders are 5pts less
beast shaman can upgrade spiders to reroll ALL wounds
spider character has an ability where if you wound him, or he wounds you he paralyses you like a barrow wight, other than that he's shaman.
Dweller is ok, only D5 is its downside. 3W, 3A, gets wounds back when it kills someone.

FALLEN REALMS
Mauhur makes all uruk scouts 8" move for 1pt (better!), ally in a blak guard drummer for movement 11" ;)
sharkey and worm are in there, cant remember what they do, but they're CHEAP
amdur gained the not fall over rule.
Easterling kataphrakts get wardum (same as orc drum, +3", effects all easterlings and Khand)
Easterlings can upgrade to F and C4 for 2pts
corsair arbalesters aren't unarmed in combat.
harad can have 50% bows if they only use certain warriors
warriors can be upgraded to either C4 for 1pt, or shoot value 3+ for 2pts, cost 1pt more than before


Warbands work as 1 hero leads 12 warriors, bow limit goes across army, not warbands unless you ally in other lists.. heroes don;t have to lead anyone. If a hero consists of 2 models, like elf twins, you pick one as leader, other counts as a warrior (so 2 heros and 11 guys)

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:58 pm 
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OK. That's amazing. Seems that Vrasku is as overpowered as before. Oh well, everything else makes up for that. So Black Numenoreans and Knights of Dol Amroth are still the same cost?

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:28 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Draugluin wrote:
OK. That's amazing. Seems that Vrasku is as overpowered as before. Oh well, everything else makes up for that. So Black Numenoreans and Knights of Dol Amroth are still the same cost?


I think so,
I think blakc numemoreans can upgrade to have either F5, or poison (reroll1's) for some pts.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:51 pm 
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The more you post spoilers, the less I am tempted to buy them, so it would be in your best interest to stop, because I can't resist looking, since it may save money, but the forbidden fruit...

(So that is a plea from me to not post spoilers withouht righting SPOILER ALERT IN CAPITALS, DO NOT LOOK AT THESE GOTHMOG!)

(On a plus side, GW have already revealed some of it anyway, and some of the info is nice)

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Dezartfox wrote:
FALLEN REALMS
Mauhur makes all uruk scouts 8" move for 1pt (better!), ally in a blak guard drummer for movement 11" ;)


... Mauhur's mauraders has a drummer... Isenguard command unit has a drummer... please dont tell me they didnt give him rules again! :o :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:31 am 
Elven Warrior
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i dont remember seeing the option for a hornblower or drummer in their entries actually.. might have seen the hornblower, but definitely no drummer.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:56 am 
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Dezartfox wrote:
FALLEN REALMS
Mauhur makes all uruk scouts 8" move for 1pt (better!), ally in a blak guard drummer for movement 11" ;)


Faster than Cavalry Uruk Hai? Bloody hell...Why don't we just cut the Devlan Mud and give everything Wings? At least then we'd have balance.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:58 am 
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King Ondoher wrote:
Dezartfox wrote:
FALLEN REALMS
Mauhur makes all uruk scouts 8" move for 1pt (better!), ally in a blak guard drummer for movement 11" ;)


Faster than Cavalry Uruk Hai? Bloody hell...Why don't we just cut the [word deleted] and give everything Wings? At least then we'd have balance.


Keep in mind, when spurred on by the drum, they cannot charge enemy models
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:02 am 
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Please tell me there's been a tweak for the Goblin drum to make it a viable alternative to the Gundabads?
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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:09 am 
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Battalia wrote:
King Ondoher wrote:
Dezartfox wrote:
FALLEN REALMS
Mauhur makes all uruk scouts 8" move for 1pt (better!), ally in a blak guard drummer for movement 11" ;)


Faster than Cavalry Uruk Hai? Bloody hell...Why don't we just cut the [word deleted] and give everything Wings? At least then we'd have balance.


Keep in mind, when spurred on by the drum, they cannot charge enemy models


Its still rather silly isn't it? A 9" move for infantry was pushing it I thought. But 11", making them faster than horses and wargs and only a tad slower than a Dragon, Fellbeast or Eagle? Yeah, thats a fantastic mental image, very Tolkien-authentic...You might as well paint them red, 'cos everyone knows the red ones go fasta.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:22 am 
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Actually, the Uruks with Ugluk were spurred on to run incredibly far, incredibly fast by the force of Saruman's will. The drum could be a sort of focus for his will, letting those nearby run much faster. Lame answer, but whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:21 am 
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No no, thats good reasoning. :yay: Still, I think 9" should be the absolute limit for infantry speed - 9" is already a large move distance. And as fast as the Uruk Hai led by Ugluk may have been able to run, I really doubt that they could outrun a horse (and in fact...they DIDN'T - Eomer and his men caught them). :lol:

I think Drums should give +1" to the movement, but keeping Mauhur/Ugluks' Raiders as 8" base movement. That would allow Mauhur and co. 9" movement using a drum (reflecting their natural agility plus a forced march), and 7" for other Orcs (who aren't fit, but are made to force march). Or you could do it the other way round, +2" for Drums and +1" for mauhur's raiders, giving 8" move for normal Orcs and 9" for Mauhur's raiders. (I prefer option A).

I just think that give such huge boosts to movement e.g. 11", seriously messes up the meta game, when you start introducing infantry that are faster than cavalry. Those cavalry are effectively getting a (small) nerf if the enemy has cheaper and faster infantry that can outnumber and overrun them quickly. Not that GW ever cared about the Law of Unintended Consequences. :-X

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 Post subject: Re: NEW release LOTR models
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:34 am 
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I've never liked how a horse can only move 4in faster than a man. If it were more realistic, all cavalry (including monstrous mounts and stuff) should move an extra 2-3in.

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