What should have been in the movies

Draugluin · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:44 pm

Tolkien didn't go into much detail about it. It was just Legolas and Gimli recounting how the Dead killed all before them. The Last March of the Ents was awesome in the movie, but the Entmoot really made me wanna slap PJ.

Telchar · **Posted:** Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:21 pm

I must disagree with everyone loving the Warg Attack. It doesn't have any purpose whatsoever, it gives an excuse for that horrid Sharku-Orc thing, it makes Gimli look like a total failure in every aspect, generates those redundant Aragorn-died scenes, and the Wargs have been made really badly. I HATE IT!!! :-X

Just in case that wasn't clear yet.

The Aragorn-Arwen scenes don't even annoy me too much (and I really can't stand love scenes), because there's just 2-3 of them troughout the movie, they aren't too present and somehow I barely notice them.

@ Gothmog. If they're so cute and adorable, why do you like them? But I must agree, Wargs are epic. It's just, the scene isn't.

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

1) Nor I stand love scene but if it is for Aragorn and Arwen the only expection...
2) You like what is cute and adorable...I would like to have a warg if they existed, at least if it didn't eat me or my squirrer when it grew up...
3) The scene was good but the wargs looked a little weak :aragorn:

Draugluin · **Posted:** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:50 pm

The "love" scenes don't even make any sense though. They're completely random and useless.

ForgottenLore · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 491

Telchar wrote:

the Warg Attack. It doesn't have any purpose whatsoever,

It took me a while thinking about it but I did finally figure out why they did the Warg attack.

They wanted one of the main characters to actually see the Uruk host and be able to report it to Theoden. Up to that point (in the movies) the main force of the Rohirrim didn't have any concrete intelligence on Saruman's forces. By allowing one of the main characters to witness the actual army marching against them and give a reliable report to Theoden it allowed them to up the despair level among the Rohirrim prior to the battle.

I would also like to point out that the book does include Warg attacks on the march from Edoras to Helm's Deep. It is like a single line, but it is there.

Personally, I don't care. It is a scene in the movie. There are other scenes I dislike a lot more, there are many more scenes that I am much more fond of.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:44 pm

Telchar wrote:

@ Gothmog. If they're so cute and adorable, why do you like them? But I must agree, Wargs are epic. It's just, the scene isn't.

Wargs also have sharp claws and large fangs (all the better to eat you with my dears :twisted:

)

Draugluin · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:39 am

ForgottenLore wrote:

Telchar wrote:

the Warg Attack. It doesn't have any purpose whatsoever,

It took me a while thinking about it but I did finally figure out why they did the Warg attack.

They wanted one of the main characters to actually see the Uruk host and be able to report it to Theoden. Up to that point (in the movies) the main force of the Rohirrim didn't have any concrete intelligence on Saruman's forces. By allowing one of the main characters to witness the actual army marching against them and give a reliable report to Theoden it allowed them to up the despair level among the Rohirrim prior to the battle.

I would also like to point out that the book does include Warg attacks on the march from Edoras to Helm's Deep. It is like a single line, but it is there.

Personally, I don't care. It is a scene in the movie. There are other scenes I dislike a lot more, there are many more scenes that I am much more fond of.

That's why they should have stuck more with the books and had a character, Eomer would have been perfect in this role, come back from the Fords of Isen and say something along the lines of "After I was banished, I rode out to help Erkenbrand. We were scattered by 10,000 uruk's. Erkenbrand retreated with as many of his forces as he could save north." Then Gandlaf rides north to get Erkenbrand. Then they skip the wargs, skip the whole Theoden's a coward Devlan Mud and keep the elves alive and fighting the army of Dol Guldor. Heck, by doing it this way they could save enough time to actually show/explain the elves fighting in other parts of Middle-Earth.

EDIT: The word deleted wasn't me swearing. Just FYI.

Sticky Fingersss · **Joined:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:20 am **Posts:** 1776

I like the warg scene. I agree it dosn't serve a good purpose and could have been left for the extended edition but I loved Sharku and the idea of 2 cavalry charges. Aragorn's "death"is pointless because we all know he will live, even if you havn't read the books, you know they wouldn't kill off the main character so easily. But there was some good comic relief for Gimli and the actual fighting was pretty cool.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:52 pm

One of my biggest gripes of the films is the extra level of comic relief pushed down on Gimli, and his failure at the Warg attack scene is a significant example of this. Bad enough that as soon as they get close to the fight he just falls to the ground (ok..."fast dismount"...), but he's a total flop during the fight.

I wasn't thrilled with them making the Wargs look like over-sized hyenas, but since I've always been disappointed that real wolves get a bad wrap in so many stories already I let it go. The actual clash of the two mounted armies was impressive to see. Get rid of Aragorn's "death" and let Gimli do some decent fighting and I would have been pretty happy with it.

To bring back the message of the approaching Uruk force we could have had Hama "not dead yet", and drag his way back to Helms Deep, seeing the approaching army on the way and delivering the message. Now you have him back at the battle and he can be hewn even as he lay dead before the gates, as is proper. Doing so you also would no longer need to have Haldir die there nor would you need to introduce any new characters (such as Erkenbrand).

Oh well...PJ really should have consulted some of us. Too late now.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:05 pm

Beowulf03809 wrote:

One of my biggest gripes of the films is the extra level of comic relief pushed down on Gimli, and his failure at the Warg attack scene is a significant example of this. Bad enough that as soon as they get close to the fight he just falls to the ground (ok..."fast dismount"...), but he's a total flop during the fight.

I wasn't thrilled with them making the Wargs look like over-sized hyenas, but since I've always been disappointed that real wolves get a bad wrap in so many stories already I let it go. The actual clash of the two mounted armies was impressive to see. Get rid of Aragorn's "death" and let Gimli do some decent fighting and I would have been pretty happy with it.

To bring back the message of the approaching Uruk force we could have had Hama "not dead yet", and drag his way back to Helms Deep, seeing the approaching army on the way and delivering the message. Now you have him back at the battle and he can be hewn even as he lay dead before the gates, as is proper. Doing so you also would no longer need to have Haldir die there nor would you need to introduce any new characters (such as Erkenbrand).

Oh well...PJ really should have consulted some of us. Too late now.

I kinda like the comic relief that they gave Gimli. I think that it fit him, being a dwarf, that he laughed in the face of certain death. I will say that him getting taken out of the action without doing anything like that was inexcusable, though it makes complete sense that he would "dismount" the horse to better get to grips with his enemy.

I liked the un-wolfishness of the wargs. I don't think it would have looked good if they had orcs riding realistic looking wolves.

I wouldn't have liked to see Hama die that way. First, he gets mauled by a warg, then drags himself 10 miles infront of 10,000 uruks, then gets butchered right at the last second. I would have gotten too attached to him that way, and would've hated his death almost as much as Boromir's.

PJ should at least have gone by the book more than he did.

ForgottenLore · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 491

Beowulf03809 wrote:

One of my biggest gripes of the films is the extra level of comic relief pushed down on Gimli, and his failure at the Warg attack scene is a significant example of this.

I totally agree. Gimili should be every bit the badass that Legalos is.

WayUnderTheMountain · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:29 pm

I don't think I would call Legolas "badass". He's a little too pretty looking and doesn't have the dry sense of humour. I agree though that Gimli needed to be shown as a little bit more deadly than he was portrayed with all the comic relief he was given.

I wasn't particularly fond of the Wargs in the film, but giant wolves (like oversizing the Timber Wolves in Oblivion) would have looked a bit more in line with the books. Mind you, Peter might have done it to portray the corruption of the creatures that serve Sauron. Also, I liked Gimli's "fast dismount" because he would want to be fighting on foot rather than on horseback. The faster the better and he had no experience in the emergency dismount that most horsemen would know. Again, I would have liked to see Gimli fight better in this fight and do something akin to the minotaur general in The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, where he's hacking his axe into the chests of charging wargs to send them flipping head over paws, etc.

Hama should have died fighting at Helm's Deep and have been shown being hacked while he laid dead. Erkenbrand should have led the reinforcements (mounted, as mounted might have looked better than infantry and made more sense for Rohan) and Eomer fighting beside Gimli in spite their feud over Galadriel (which I wished had been in the films).

Draugluin · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:11 pm

^Exactly. I think the reason they showed Legolas fighting more was because of the size difference between the characters.

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

I like too wargs because they look like Hyenas as I prefer hyenas over wolves

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:22 am

Hilbert wrote:

I like too wargs because they look like Hyenas as I prefer hyenas over wolves

Wolves are the best animals in the animal kingdom, i like them more than any other, the only reason i like hyenas is because they are rel;ated to wolves.

I also agree with Beowulf about how woolves are evil in so much other work eg Chronicles of Narnia, so it makes a change for them not being wolves.

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

Everyone like what he like and for that we are different...
"The world would be boring if we all were the same."-Rasina
Have I already wrote that? :roll:

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:03 pm

You have written that before, but it is still just as applicable.

However, wolves are beutiful, awesome, cool, viscoius, cuddly, fanged animals and when they are portrayed as evil, some silly person thinks they are evil in real life and start killing them. I hate those people.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:29 pm

No, when wolves kill a farmers flock of sheep, they portray the wolves as evil after killing them.

WayUnderTheMountain · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:59 pm

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

However, wolves are beautiful, awesome, cool, vicious, cuddly, fanged animals and when they are portrayed as evil, some silly person thinks they are evil in real life and start killing them.

All life is beautiful and should be respected regardless of our personal opinions though I also agree with Draugluin in that usually wolves are killed because they have been attacking something humans do not want them to and then are portrayed as evil.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:01 pm

Cows aren't beautiful, unless in their steak form.

What should have been in the movies

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