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Oldman Willow · **Posted:** Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:20 pm

Quote:

In fairness, the LOME "lists" remained true until WOTR came about - both the Gondor in Flames and Ruin of Arnor book include the new listed models.

I may have missed something

WOTR and the SBG are not the same game

So how does WOTR change the rules?

I think that is what you mean by "True". So what is not "True" and Why?

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:37 pm

WoTR made GW change their entire game plan. For better or for worse, I'm not sure. I could've done without Gundabad Blackshields, personally...

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:05 pm

Oldman Willow wrote:

Quote:

In fairness, the LOME "lists" remained true until WOTR came about - both the Gondor in Flames and Ruin of Arnor book include the new listed models.

I may have missed something

WOTR and the SBG are not the same game

So how does WOTR change the rules?

I think that is what you mean by "True". So what is not "True" and Why?

I'm not sure if you're serious or not (give you the benefit of the doubt that you are), but WotR is an entirely new and different game system. Same models and basic profile concepts, but that's about all. It's a mass-combat oriented system that uses movement trays and dozens of models. Typical of new games it has some rule gaps, loop holes, exploitations, over power/under costed models, etc. but overall we have been enjoying it locally (I can see how tournament-intensive play would be frustrating and boring due to some of the issues I just mentioned). Still prefer SBG for true Middle Earth flavor but it's nice to field a hundred Wood Elves and be able to finish the game in a few hours.

LoME has some complaints about it but I still think it was one of the best things to happen to SBG freestyle games for the restrictions and themes it brought the chaos of basic "Good vs. Evil" lists and tried to solidify some Middle Earth forces.

Oldman Willow · **Posted:** Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:51 pm

I may have been a bit sardonic :oops:

I may have totally misunderstood what was meant by "true"

Quote:

LoME has some complaints about it but I still think it was one of the best things to happen to SBG freestyle games for the restrictions and themes it brought the chaos of basic "Good vs. Evil" lists and tried to solidify some Middle Earth forces.

I agree

So how does WOTR change the rules or the army list for of SBG. It clearly does not :!:

Unless I have missed something.
I am sorry that was not as clear as it should have been. I don't think I missed anything but I am ready to be corrected if I am wrong.

Erunion · **Posted:** Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:01 pm

@Oldman Willow: I believe that aelfwine is trying to say that GW intended to produce all of the models listed in the LoME expansion until WotR was released, at which time the business plan and schedule of releases changed.

Oldman Willow · **Posted:** Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:06 pm

Quote:

I believe that aelfwine is trying to say that GW intended to produce all of the models listed in the LoME expansion until WotR was released, at which time the business plan and schedule of releases changed.

He is correct about that. I totally misunderstood the other part :oops:

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:06 am

In essence, Aelfwine and myself (and others) were dispelling the rumour that just because there was an entry in LoME, we would see a model. Some people remain convinced that we will, though...

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:11 pm

I'm actually happy by that in some respects. I'm not sure I'd have liked GW's take on an Elvish catapult for example. I can picture such a WH over-the-top decorative thing coming from their "creative" process.

SBG Profiles and rules would be nice. But every time they do something not closely bound to something PJ already envisioned for them I cringe. They nail it about 25% of the time, do a decent job another 50%, but totally miss the JRRT-mark 25%...In my totally personal and biased opinion of course.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:08 pm

Alas, I miss the Easterling and Dunland stuff though.

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:08 pm

I agree completely, Beowulf. Not only that, but the profiles seem to be getting out of line now. Those Black Guard of Barad-dur are insane! As I mentioned before, the Gundabad Blackshields are over the top, as were the Mahud before them.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:10 pm

The Mahud were in LOME (just less points)

Oldman Willow · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:18 pm

Quote:

I agree completely, Beowulf. Not only that, but the profiles seem to be getting out of line now. Those Black Guard of Barad-dur are insane! As I mentioned before, the Gundabad Blackshields are over the top, as were the Mahud before them.

I like the way the figures look. I am unsure of the rules because I don't play enough to have an opinion.

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:03 pm

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

Alas, I miss the Easterling and Dunland stuff though.

For Dunland, we got Thrydan instead of the Royalblood Chieftain and we can still expect the cavalry as it's in WoTR.

King and Catapult are all the Easterlings didn't get. Both can be easily enough proxied in casual games.

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

The Mahud were in LOME (just less points)

True, but I was talking about profiles at that point. For 5 points naked (as listed in LoME), the Mahud would have been very average men. As we got them, they are like Uruk-hai with 2 attacks. No justification for it other than "people will buy them if they are powerful."

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:09 pm

Oldman Willow wrote:

I like the way the figures look. I am unsure of the rules because I don't play enough to have an opinion.

The minis are nice, but I find the shields a tad large. Their profiles give them a strength equal to Isengard Uruk-hai Captains.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:51 pm

Firstly with Easterlings its a ballista not a catapult, secondly they also have dragon guards. Thirdly, Dunland were meant to have Huscurls. Its the Guards and Huscurls that I'm more interested in.

whafrog · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:10 pm

Lord Hurin wrote:

True, but I was talking about profiles at that point. For 5 points naked (as listed in LoME), the Mahud would have been very average men. As we got them, they are like Uruk-hai with 2 attacks. No justification for it other than "people will buy them if they are powerful."

I wouldn't have a problem with it if they had taken the time to rescale the other profiles, eg: Fountain Court with S4, A2 and appropriate cost.

SuicidalMarsbar · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:14 am **Posts:** 1712

Lord Hurin wrote:

True, but I was talking about profiles at that point. For 5 points naked (as listed in LoME), the Mahud would have been very average men. As we got them, they are like Uruk-hai with 2 attacks. No justification for it other than "people will buy them if they are powerful."

It's better to have variation in the game as opposed to alot of profiles being very similar, the mahud in general are completely different to every other army and i respect GW's attempt to create a truly unique army.

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:57 pm

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

Firstly with Easterlings its a ballista not a catapult, secondly they also have dragon guards. Thirdly, Dunland were meant to have Huscurls. Its the Guards and Huscurls that I'm more interested in.

My mistake. I assumed the Dragon Knight was a replacement for Dragon Guard.

The Huscarls would be nice as well, but I don't see them being made. In fact, if something was in LoME but not WoTR I think it highly unlikely that we'll ever see models for it. You see, they simply don't give a toss about SBG anymore. They want Khamul raping everything and Gimli and Aragorn at the head of companies of Khazad Guard.

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:03 pm

SuicidalMarsbar wrote:

It's better to have variation in the game as opposed to alot of profiles being very similar, the mahud in general are completely different to every other army and i respect GW's attempt to create a truly unique army.

They're quite overpowered compared to all else though, and there's no text or movie support for that. Hell, there's practically no text support at all and they were missing from the movies aside from the Mumak commanders. Keep in mind, this game IS based on the Lord of the Ring trilogy of books and films.

SuicidalMarsbar · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:14 am **Posts:** 1712

Lord Hurin wrote:

SuicidalMarsbar wrote:

It's better to have variation in the game as opposed to alot of profiles being very similar, the mahud in general are completely different to every other army and i respect GW's attempt to create a truly unique army.

They're quite overpowered compared to all else though, and there's no text or movie support for that. Hell, there's practically no text support at all and they were missing from the movies aside from the Mumak commanders. Keep in mind, this game IS based on the Lord of the Ring trilogy of books and films.

Yeah fair enough but considering alot of players create their own characters and house rules i think its good that GW do the same. Also battle companies can lead to a player creating powerful heroes that were never present in the books/films, yet people don't complain about that. Also the Harad book was released long after SBG's golden days so i don't blame them for injecting some originality to bring in new players that want interesting models. Also i wouldn't call them overpowered, their pathetic courage value and "warrior pride" renders them nearly useless should you lose your hero, or split your army.

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