To me the troll, at least, is an easy fix - just say that any non-cavalry model on a 40mm or larger base fights by the normal rules, while cavalry and 25mm infantry fight by doop dude's modified melee rules.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

I think fingolfin should be worth less points, but be pretty much the best elf in the game. First agers could be like the monsters for the good side. Hows this for a fingolfin profile:

Fingolfin 225 points
F 9 S 5 D 8 A 3 W 3 C 7 M 4 W 3 F 3

Fingolfin wields a sword, a fine shield, the Horn of Fingolfin, and wears finely crafted heavy armour. He may also have the following:
Special Rules:
High King of the Elves: Fingolfin's standfast is 12" instead of 6"
Terror: see main rules manuel for details
The Horn of Fingolfin: see Horn of Gondor
Crstal Shield: this shield shines in the light of the sun. All models within 6” count as being within range of a banner
Blurring Speed: Roll a D6 and on a 6 save against any melee wounds, before Fate is rolled

Its basically the profile from before, but I added a point of courage and might, and put in the special rule that Hirumith, the Grey Knight suggested because I think it really represent Fingolfin well. I was thinking of changing it to maybe 5+. Then I lowered the points value.

What do you guys think?

I like the idea of adding the fight score and i think Hirumith, the Grey Knight solution to the troll problem is rather simple and should work well enough, though I think you would have to playtest that really well.

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

Fingolfin's sword was one of the few named ones (Ringil), so it should probably have a special rule. It was probably more potent than Narsil or Anduril, maybe that's where the d6 to avoid a wound comes from.

Thats a good point that i forgot about in my hastiness. i have thought it over some more and this is what I have come up with.

Fingolfin 260 points
F 9 S 5 D 8 A 4 W 3 C 7 M 4 W 4 F 3

Fingolfin wields a Ringil, a fine shield, the Horn of Fingolfin, and wears finely crafted heavy armour. He may also have the following:
Rochallor: 20 points (same as armoured horse, but may move 12")
Rochallor will allow no other but Fingolfin to mount him, if fingolfin dies, he is removed from the battlefield.

Special Rules:
High King of the Elves: Fingolfin's standfast is 12" instead of 6"
Lineage of the Firstborn: See manual
Woodland Creature: See manual
The Horn of Fingolfin: see Horn of Gondor
Crstal Shield: this shield shines in the light of the sun. All models within 6” count as being within range of a banner
Ringil: Roll a D6 and on a 6 save against any melee wounds, before Fate is rolled

Magical Powers:
Nature's Wrath 4+
Immobilize 3+

Right so, I added an Attack to reflect his speed, some magic, the basic elf rules. I also added the possibility of adding Rochallor, since named horse are always awesome. I also added a might point, though I was contemplating swapping this out for a free might point every turn, but wasnt sure. Further I wasnt sure about the points, i used Gil-galad as a base and went up adding from there. But at this points level he should be able to take on a dragon.

Though, he seems overpowered compared to Aragorn, King Elessar at this point.

Anyway what do you guys think?

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

Personally, I think that profile looks pretty darn good, and the two magic powers are a nice touch.

To me the points seem just about right, and actually if anything I might drop him by 10.

I could see giving Ringil a set of special rules, although I don't think it's necessary either. I'm not sure what you would do, that hasn't already been done with some magic weapon or another. You could perhaps say that Ringil itself is what allows him the extra Might and Attack (therefore not actually changing his profile, but at least accounting for his beefed up stats).

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Here are a couple of links on Ringil:

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Ringil
http://www.annalsofarda.dk/annals-of-ar ... -sword.htm

The emphasis is on cold, maybe that can be worked in. Maybe it creates a wound that can't be avoided by Fate due to a chilling effect; or maybe it requires the enemy to spend 2 Fate points for 1 die roll; or perhaps on a 4+ it does a Sap Will when it causes a wound. Just kicking around some ideas...

I really like the idea that wounds inflicted by Ringil cannot be saved - I might even go so far as to say that they can't be saved at all (not just by Fate, but by any other means including things like "Fury"). It would definitely be fitting with the lore - that Fingolfin was able to wound Morgoth 7 times and his wounds never healed.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Good ideas whafrog. And I agree hirumith, hows this.

Fingolfin 265 points
F 9 S 5 D 8 A 4 W 3 C 7 M 4 W 4 F 3

Fingolfin wields a Ringil, a fine shield, the Horn of Fingolfin, and wears finely crafted heavy armour. He may also have the following:
Rochallor: 20 points (same as armoured horse, but may move 12")
Rochallor will allow no other but Fingolfin to mount him, if fingolfin dies, he is removed from the battlefield.

Special Rules:
High King of the Elves: Fingolfin's standfast is 12" instead of 6"
Lineage of the Firstborn: See manual
Woodland Creature: See manual
The Horn of Fingolfin: see Horn of Gondor
Crstal Shield: this shield shines in the light of the sun. All models within 6” count as being within range of a banner
Monster Bane: Fingolfins speed is legendary and is particularly effective against larger creatures. When fighting monsters (40mm base or larger, that is not cavalry), if a 6 is rolled by the monster to hit, it must be re-rolled.
Ringil: Ringil as a blade forged in Aman under the grace of the Valar brings a cold death to all those who suffer a wound from it. As such any wound inflicted by Ringil may not be saved.
One Final Blow. See Haldir, Defender of Helm's Deep, but increase to strength 5 (inspired by his last blow against Morgoth)


Magical Powers:
Nature's Wrath 4+
Immobilize 3+

I switched the Fate roll thing to apply only to monsters, and made Ringil wounds unavoidable, however, now I think that the extra attack might be too much. What do you guys think now?

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

Right, so now that I think Fingolfin is pretty much done I have decided to make Feanor:

Feanor 175 points
F 7 S 5 D 7 A 2 W 4 C 7 M 4 W 3 F 2
Wargear:
Feanor has a Hammer (elven blade) and finely crafted mithril armour and a helm.

Special rules
Master of the Fires of the Forge: If Feanor is included in the force up to 10 models may be given heavy armour for only 5 points instead of the usual 10
High King of the Noldor: Fingolfin's standfast is 12" instead of 6"
Lineage of the Firstborn: See manual
Woodland Creature: See manual
Hammer of Aman: Feanor wields this hammer with 2 hands, but instead of the +1 to wound he gets +2. Further Feanor's skill is great and he may use the shielding rule with this hammer.
Curse of the Oath: After taking a terrible oath to retrieve the silmarilis Feanor is cursed, and as such if the dark lord (in this case Morgoth, but Sauron would work too) is on the battle field, feanor must attack the dark lord. He will not charge into any other combat, though if he is charged, he must resolve that combat before being allowed to proceed to move closer to the dark lord.

And Beleg:

Beleg 180 points
F 6/2+ S 4 D 6 A 3 W 3 C 7 M 3 W 4 F 3
Wargear:
Beleg has Belthronding, his black yew bow which has a sterngth of 4 and a Anglachel his sword

Special rules:
One with nature: See rulebook
Lineage of the Firstborn: See rulebook
Woodland Creature: See rulebook
Chief of the Marchwardens: All elves within 6" of Beleg count as bein within range of a banner.
Dailir: To reflect his great skill in archery, Beleg may shoot 4 times during the shoot phase, or may elect to fire one arrow which will autmaitically score a hit.
Anglachel : Beleg wields his sword with 2 hands, but does not suffer the -1 penalty to win fights.
Expert healer: Beleg has extraordinary healing skill. As a result before Fate is rolled, roll a D6 and on a roll of 6 the wound is avoided.

Magic Powers:
Renew 2+

Thats all i could think of. What do you guys think?

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

Overall I like Feanor, although I would only give him 3 Might and 3 Wounds instead of 4, and Strength 4 instead of 5 (especially given how good you made his hammer).


For the Oath, if we're going to flesh out an entire Silmarillion themed group of characters then personally I'd say this rule should be changed to something along the lines of "This model must charge any model possessing a Silmaril if he is able, friend or foe." Then, this rule should be applied to the sons of Feanor as well. In addition, I would give him one other special rule:

Arrogance of the Noldor: At the beginning of the game, a player controlling Feanor may choose any other number of noldor in his force that are members of Feanor's host. Only these models may benefit from Feanor's Stand Fast! and Heroic Actions, and in addition they may not benefit from the Stand Fast! or Heroic Actions of any other hero in the force.
_____________________________________________________________

Personally, I would de-power Beleg a bit. I would drop his Attacks (since he's much more a ranger/archer then fighter), Might, and Fate to 2 each, and probably drop his defense to 5 (I imagine he would only be wearing armor, not heavy armor).


Since this rule is already used on Fingolfin, and doens't really seem to be necessary or especially justified to me, I would drop it. Fairly powerful special rules like this should really be reserved for the great kings and heroes, while Beleg is essentially a captian-level character (albeit still a very powerful elf).


I think this skill is way too good, especially with a shoot value of 2+. I would give him the option to make 2 shots per turn instead, and probably change the auto-hit to ignoring obstacles.


I feel like Anglachel needs to be a double-edged sword, so to speak. I like what you did, but maybe add that if he rolls only 1's in melee then he takes a Strength 4 hit himself? I'm not entirely sure of what it should do, but I think the more sinister nature of the sword needs to be taken into account somehow or another. I would also make it optional.


I would extend this to include any friendly heroes within 3" or so.

You might consider giving Beleg and Turin the "Unbreakable Bond" rule, as well, if they're included in the same force.

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Right great ideas. I really like the Arrogance of the Noldor one, I was trying to come up with something like that.

Feanor 175 points
F 7 S 4 D 7 A 2 W 3 C 7 M 3 W 3 F 2
Wargear:
Feanor has a Hammer (elven blade) and finely crafted mithril armour and a helm.

Special rules
Master of the Fires of the Forge: If Feanor is included in the force up to 10 models may be given heavy armour for half of the usual cost.
High King of the Noldor: Fingolfin's standfast is 12" instead of 6"
Lineage of the Firstborn: See manual
Woodland Creature: See manual
Hammer of Aman: Feanor wields this hammer with 2 hands, but instead of the +1 to wound he gets +2. Further Feanor's skill is great and he may use the shielding rule with this hammer.
Curse of the Oath: This model must charge any model possessing a Silmaril if he is able, friend or foe.
Arrogance of the Noldor:At the beginning of the game, a player controlling Feanor may choose any other number of noldor warriors and unnamed heroes in his force that are members of Feanor's host. Only these models may benefit from Feanor's Stand Fast! and Heroic Actions, and in addition they may not benefit from the Stand Fast! or Heroic Actions of any hero in the force that is not a member of Feanor's host.

All good points for Beleg too, I guess making the sword optional makes sense, and the double edged nature is a clever idea also. I like the shooting rule that you proposed but have combined it, so that he can shoot and ignore obstacles, since that would seem to reflect his prowess with a bow better. Plus he does cost alot.

Beleg 140 points
F 6/2+ S 4 D 5 A 3 W 3 C 7 M 3 W 4 F 3
Wargear:
Beleg has Belthronding, his black yew bow which has a sterngth of 4 and sword. THis following may be added at an additional cost:
Anglachel - 10 points
Beleg wields his sword with 2 hands, but does not suffer the -1 penalty to win fights. However if Beleg rolls 2 1's on a to hit roll, he suffers a strength 4 hit himself.

Special rules:
One with nature: See rulebook
Lineage of the Firstborn: See rulebook
Woodland Creature: See rulebook
Dailir: To reflect his great skill in archery, Beleg may shoot 2 times during the shoot phase, and may ignore obstacles.
Expert healer: Beleg has extraordinary healing skill. As a result before Fate is rolled, roll a D6 and on a roll of 6 the wound is avoided. Also all units within 3" of Beleg may use this rule also.
Unbreakable Bond: With Turin. See rulebook.

Magic Powers:
Renew 2+

Let me know what you think now? How are the points costs?
Also how do you like the new Fingolfin profile?

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

As they stand: I think all look great!

Just a couple of kind of nit-picky things:

One, for Feanor's "Master of the Forge" I would change it from "up to 10 models may purchase heavy armor for 5 pts. instead of 10 pts." to " up to 10 models may purchase heavy armor for half of the normal price" (the reason for this being that it's unlikely you'll have a full 10 heroes accompanying Feanor).

Also, as an addendum to the "Arrogance of the Noldor" rule I would add the caveat that unnamed heroes (i.e. Noldor captains) can be included in Feanor's host, and other models in Feanor's host do benefit from the Stand Fast! and Heroic Actions of these characters. Basically, just change the wording to:

At the beginning of the game, a player controlling Feanor may choose any other number of noldor warriors and unnamed heroes in his force that are members of Feanor's host. Only these models may benefit from Feanor's Stand Fast! and Heroic Actions, and in addition they may not benefit from the Stand Fast! or Heroic Actions of any hero in the force that is not a member of Feanor's host.

[additions in bold]

For Beleg - I'd say for Anglachel that it only bites back if he rolls two 1's in melee (with 3 attacks, there's a pretty good chance of rolling at least one 1 in any given malee, making the sword not very good).

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Well, that's my 2 cents.

Cool, thanks for all your help and ideas. I fixed those in the post above, as i really didnt want to take up that much space again, fixing just a few things. I will get on making some more profiles soon. i am not sure who i want to try next.

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

Aren't "One with Nature" and "Woodland Creature" redundant?


Nice touch adding Renew.

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

how about some bad sillmarrillion heros

like brodda

heres one for ulfang:

Ulfang the High Priest (Man)------100 points

-F--S-D-A-W-C-----M/W/F
4/- 4-5-1-3--4------3-3*3

Equipment: Battle Stave, Heavy Armour and an Ensorcelled Ring.

Special Rules

*Ensorcelled Ring: The most loyal of the minions of the Dark Lord are granted gifts for their servitude and devout loyalty. The bearer of the Ensorcelled Ring is granted a formidable ability to wield magic. This grants the wearer one free point of will per turn. However, like all gifts from the Dark Lord, the ring is tainted. If a 1 is rolled when attempting to cast magic the user suffers an automatic S6 hit. (fate points can still be used to attempt to avoid any wounds caused by the hits).

Designers Note: The Ensorcelled Ring is subject to the effects of the magic power 'Your Staff is Broken!' in the same way a Staff of Power is.

Magical Powers

Bladewrath: See Easterling War Priests entry
Transfix: Range: 12"/28cm Dice Score: 3+
Compel: Range 12"/28cm Dice Score: 4+
Arcane Bolt: Range:12"/28cm Score: 4+: A lightning bolt of arcane origin shoots from the hands of the Priest. The Arcane Bolt inflicts a single S6 hit against the target.

Ulfang may be included in an Easterling army

How about melkor (use balrog model) 500 pts

f/s s a w c m w f
10/- 10 5 10 8 6 10 6

Terror

Magical powers
melkors curse 5+
if the unit fails to resist, they lose all heroic stats and 3 courage

The alternative would be to just leave all first age models underpowered. Fighting godlike opponents is never fun. Just imagine the poor orc player who loses a dozen models per elf he manages to slay. It would make for a very drawn out match, and I don't think it would be as enjoyable. Besides, the figures in the Silmarrillion are quite excessive, you'll never be able to accurately replicate that power anyway, without completely breaking the game.

Edit: Oops, just noticed this thread had two pages.

^I'll agree with you that some stats are way overpowered and yet at the sametime they do kind of reflect the characters correctly.

-You have your God-like characters which are between 300 & 450 points. Gothmog, Ungoliant, Glaurung, & Carcharoth belongs here. I think Morgoth would surpass this being the ultimate dark lord.

-The uber-heroes would be somewhere between 170 & 260 points. This is where all the big name characters should fit between such as Feanor, Fingolfin, Finarfin, Beren, Huor, Hurin, Turin, Tuor.

-Then you have the strong heroes which is around 90 to 150. I would put the leading sons of Feanor here, Turgon, Melian, Thorondor, Fingon and Finrod

-The mediocre heroes of 50 to 80 would be Beleg, Maeglin, the lesser sons of Feanor, Luthien, Ulfang.

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

Thorondor<Hurin?

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

While I agree on your concept as a whole, I must disagree on a few things:
Fingolfin belongs into the 'God-like' class for sure - he wounded Morgoth seven (!) times before finally going down! Also, Luthien is one of the most powerful of the Children of Illuvatar, I'd put her at least on par with Gandalf, magic-wise and point-wise.
In your list, I'd also probably switch Finarfin (who didn't really do anything at all, as he stayed in Aman) and Turgon, whose sword (Glamdring) is still feared by the orcs literally thousands of years after his death, even though he is only known to have fought on two occasions (Unnumbered Tears and the Fall of Gondolin)! He must have wreaked havoc in these battles to earn such a lasting reputation!
On the other hand, Tuor wasn't that powerful, I'd put him in the 'strong heroes' bracket. Huor and Húrin might work as a sort of Elladan&Elrohir², possibly in some sort of synergy with Turgon (if he's there).
Personally, I wouldn't put Morgoth that far above your 'God-like' bracket - at 500 Points at most. You see, he may have nominally been the most powerful being in Arda, but he alone of all the Valar knew fear and doubt! He usually schemes from the background, on the few occasions that he is actually forced to handle things himself he really struggles: he nearly gets strangled by Ungoliant and only makes it because his Balrogs save him just in time, he gets pwned by Luthien so Beren can grab a Silmaril, Fingolfin (as I said above) manages to really hurt him a lot in their 1on1 duel, and everytime he is really cornered he surrenders. I'm not sure how to reflect this in game terms, but low Courage and/or Will might be a start... Maybe he could get a special rule that when he loses his last wound, he rolls two dice - on a 1,1 he really is dead, on 3-4 he 'retreats' (he is removed but doesn't count as a casualty) and on a 5+ he regenerates the wound. Something like that to show that you can't easily "kill" a Vala. To symbolize the sheer terror he causes you could give him a -1C aura and all Courage tests to attack him must be taken with 3D6 with the two lowest counting. There's lots of leeway in the rules to actually make it work, though surely only in 3k+ point games.

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Rohan - as it should have been. A house rule project.