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 Post subject: The Games Workshop "Suggestion Box"
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:11 am 
Elven Warrior
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Ever layed awake at night pondering various philosophical issues or historical blunders, thinking about the best possible outcome to each conundrum or situation? :wink: Recently I was just thinking of various things Games Workshop could easily and obviously do to increase their sales, show they care, and ultimately benefit the consumer. I thought I'd share them with you. :)

Sourcebooks. When you're interested in a new army, one of the most essential tools you'll need is a sourcebook. A sourcebook typically costs $20, with Army Books and Codices costing $29. Thats insanely high for a 40-100 page book, some of which have the majority of pages in black and white. In my personal opinion, a lot of the books have been weighed, measured, and found wanting based on what they should offer for what you pay. Firstly, I think Games Workshop should create a sub-standard version of each supplement. The sub-standard would be exactly like the original supplement in that it would include all of the rules, but it would feature no hobby material, background, or scenarios, it would just have the profiles and points values of all warriors and heroes of the region, so that one may field the army. The sub-standard supplement would be sold for anywhere from $3 to $10, reasonably. But then why would anyone purchase the regular sourcebook, army book, or codex? The regular suppplement would remain the same price, but would also include a whole host of extra hobby material, fluff, etc. I'm talking 50 or more pages of extras. My second idea is that Games Workshop should be smart enough to realize that when an army isn't doing well in sales, a free .pdf of the supplement that goes with it would do well to revive interest. The .pdfs GW released recently of the Witch Hunters and Demonhunters Codices was a very good idea but not advertised as heavily as they should have been. Free supplements, whether with White Dwarf or as downloads, are never a bad thing.

Marketing. When people find out about my hobby, that I paint ''miniatures'', which often ultimately get referred to haphazardly as figurines, dolls, or action figures, they are completely clueless as to what I'm talking about or what I do in my spare time. Games Workshop, and other miniatures companies, need to get out there! Maybe its just the US, but the ONLY Games Workshop advertisement I've ever seen outside of their own controlled environment was in the back of the Return of the King video game box. Other than that, it wouldn't hurt if Games Workshop didn't confine themselves to hobby stores, ecspecially with their Lord of the Rings range. I remember once seeing a boxed set for The Two Towers in a Barnes and Nobles, but never seeing any other paintable miniatures anywhere else but a hobby store. I would love to purchase paintable miniatures at a book store! I say paintable minitures due to the fact that collectable pre-painted miniatures such as D&D and Axis and Allies Miniatures are so readily availible that they can be found anywhere from Barnes and Nobles, to Target, to even WalMart. So, I suggest advertising more and selling from more locations. Heck, none of the Warcraft nerds at my school even knew that Warhammer was older than Warcraft, and when they found out, they argued that Warhammer Age of Reckoning came out way after the original Warcraft! They had no idea that the Warhammer franchise was that old, and didn't start with a video game.

Movement Trays. Games Workshop should start packaging Warhammer and War of the Ring movement trays in their boxed sets (leaving them seperate for blister packs still, obviously) for no additional charge. Cause lets face it, you're gonna need 'em. On that same note, its ridiculous when a boxed set or blister pack does not come with the minimum required to field a unit, or at least an appropriate number to where one could easily reach the required number with the minimum amount of purchases. For example, many of the old Warhammer Dogs of War boxed sets' minimum unit size did not match the corresponding boxed sets, usually by only one, meaning a player would have to purchase an individual blister in addition to the boxed set to field the regiment. For War of the Ring, one needs eight warriors to field a unit, but many of the blisters come with three warriors rather than a convienient four, in which case, one will have to purchase another blister of three and have one useless guy leftover.

Size Discrepencies. Nothing is in scale with each other. Besides the whole metal to plastic, old and new issue, there is the plain fact that a Space Marine miniature should be a whole lot bigger than it is. Dwarves shouldn't be the same size as hobbits, or rather, hobbits shouldn't be the same size as dwarves, etc. I won't spend long on this, as the secondary point within this is the price discrepency related to the size discrepency. A Blood Angels Death Company boxed set consists of a couple of sprues capable of creating five minitures for $33. Then theres the Goblin Wolf Riders boxed set, much larger miniatures, capable of creating 10 miniatures for $35. What the heck? The part that ticks me off the most, though, is that you can buy an individual hero, lets say Beregond, or a blister pack of warriors, lets say Citadel Guard, for basically the same price! Beregond and one citadel guard take the same amount of metal to make, yet I can get three citadel guard for approximately the same cost as one Beregond. Ridiculous!

LOWER THE PRICES. You knew this was coming. Hobby shop after hobby shop in my area has closed because of a lack of sales because of the high prices. The starter boxed sets, Mines of Moria, Assault on Black Reach, and soon, the Island of Blood, cost over $80. Who would want to pay $80 to try a new hobby to begin with? You have to pay $27 to $33 for a box containing a couple of sprues of plastic. Its gotten to the point that one metal miniature in Warhammer 40K can cost upwards of $20. C'mon Games Workshop. You know better. It shouldn't be long before everyone is playing Warhammer with Mantic Games' Kings of War range. There should either be drastic price drops, at least to the level of GW's major competitors, or tons of sales all the time.

I will commend Games Workshop, of course, for the excellent quality of their miniatures, as well as their great customer service, but most of the business practices of Games Workshop are just dumbfounding. Well, what do you guys think? Agree, disagree? Have any ideas yourself? Maybe Games Workshop employees will take a glance at this thread, you never know, so don't hold back!

Edit. I've scratched the sourcebook idea and the movement tray idea as they read above. Please see hithero's, ukfreddybear's, and my own posts below as to why they actually are not practical, beneficial or reasonable ideas in the end. I've left the original ideas in this post so that they may still be commented on should you so wish.


Last edited by Jamros on Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:52 am 
Elven Warrior
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At this point, my main concern is absolutely ludicrous pricing. I honestly doubt it costs them two bucks for a $25 plastic set. Cutting the prices down, even by 25%, would be a dream come true.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:53 am 
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Sourcebooks. I like my books,the price isn't prohibitive no more than the similar historical books I have. Making a 'cheaper' version will not work as this will require extra $$ to make as well as extra distribution costs and shelf space. Downloadable maybe, but why make somethingthat doesn't earn you much revenue and will take away from the proper product?

Marketing Agreed, we do see a little of this in the UK with television marketing on a new game around christmas - but thats it.

Movement Tray's. Will never happen, it will cost to much in shipping, new box artwork and cost of the tray's themself especially when the end user may even want them!

Size. Yup, hate the way the models don't measure up. Retail price is also governed by the expected sales and set up costs to make the models. You will only want one Beregond but may have a dozen guard archers but cost the same to design and make, thats whay heroes alway's cost more than rank and file.

Cost. I only buy cheap of ebay now, if I can't get the models cheaper, I won't buy them - simple. They have priced me out of the market and am not willing (not, not unable) to pay their ridiculous prices, notably the Galahdrim plastic prices compared to others. I've now moved back to 28mm historica gaming as its now available in cheap plastic and high quality.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:36 am 
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I haven't actually played a game yet so don't have all the fluff that is necessary to play a game, a friend of mine and myself intend to play once we can get an army each together, so at the moment books and such don't affect me. I think you would be hard pressed to find a person in the entire world who thinks that GW's products are reasonably priced except maybe GW's owners/directors, even some of the GW staff I've spoken to agree. As I don't play I only buy the minis that I think look cool and want to paint but I haven't bought anything from a GW store in a long time, I soon realised after my first venture into the store and came out a couple of hundred bucks poorer and with a very empty bag to show for it. I now get my stuff from ebay or other discount suppliers like wayland games.
I really think that GW staff should frequent sites like this, they would gain some valuable feedback. If they don't start paying attention soon they will probably go down the gurgler as more and more hobbyists are priced out of the market.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:32 pm 
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GW prices compared to other model manufacturers is ridiculous. A few months ago, I bought an armour kit. 1/35 scale, with NINE sprues, a hull tub, and tracks. This one:
http://armorama.com/modules.php?op=modl ... nt&id=4306

That was $30 - the same price as two sprues of GW figures. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Very well put. :yay:

I suggest you send them an e-mail wiht these four topics. Let your opinion be heard!

Lol :-D

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:57 pm 
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Most of the above has been covered in many threads here and on other LotR and wargaming forums. But GW are apparently resting on their laurels a bit, not heeding the increasing number of plastics coming though from a host of companies worldwide, covering all eras of Earth history and going into the fantasy realms - think of Warlord, Mantic, the Perrys, Gripping Beast and others. For £15 - £20, these companies give you a lot more minis in the box, plus some offer fantastic army deals (like GW used to, in the good old days).

A company that ignores customers eventually has no customers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:26 pm 
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I don't like my long-winded supplement idea, mostly due to the fact that hithero made me see the light on that one. I also realize that packaging movement trays with the boxed sets is an impractical idea from any standpoint, but how about a large discount when purchasing the movement trays and the boxed set at the same time? That sounds like a better idea. I doubt GW will ever listen, but I thought we could just share obvious ideas that could easily improve the company. As of now, I do not intend to buy anything else from either of their Warhammer ranges; I didn't really like the Warhammer World to begin with, and while the 41st Millenium is awesome, I think I can resist fairly easily. Any day now, I'd like to start collecting historical miniatures as well (I love real history WAY more than the Warhammer World, so I don't know why I haven't yet).
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:59 pm 
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I agree i wish they would do a simple version of the army books and the main books and not just for LOTR. Not all of us want to know all the background and why what where when etc.

As for pricing i totaly agree, i know injection moulding costs are scarily high but it does put people off. when i started in the hobby the prices where much more reasonable. Individual white metal models of normal size figures where £3-£6. The Eldar Wraithlord when it was metal was £12.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:04 am 
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You know what i find funny? everyone complains about the prices and yes they do cost heaps, But the Uk gets minis 33% cheaper than here in New Zealand and America gets them like 10% cheaper than New Zealand.. All im saying is thank god you get them cheaper than me lol.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:57 am 
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ncea wrote:
You know what i find funny? everyone complains about the prices and yes they do cost heaps, But the Uk gets minis 33% cheaper than here in New Zealand and America gets them like 10% cheaper than New Zealand.. All im saying is thank god you get them cheaper than me lol.

That's why it is always so advantageous for Americans or New Zealanders or Austrailians or what have you to order from sites like Wayland Games or Maelstrom Games. They discount from the UK prices, which were already lower than every other currency, and with the conversion rate, it becomes a massive saving. But ordering online isn't as "satisfying" imo than going to a hobby store, browsing at all the minis and paints, and purchasing something in real life. The lack of advertising and the high costs combined caused the closure of four hobby stores in my area; I have no one to play with besides my brother, and if I want to buy miniatures now I have to ask my grandmother to do it, borrow my mother's credit card, or purchase a prepaid gift card.

The prices are too high--for anywhere. But I feel ecspecially sorry for you. :)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Not sure about the movement tray idea as that would see box set prices raise even higher. You seem to assume that everyone plays WotR when old schoolers like me only ever play SBG so have no real need for movement trays other than for displaying figures.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:54 pm 
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ukfreddybear wrote:
Not sure about the movement tray idea as that would see box set prices raise even higher. You seem to assume that everyone plays WotR when old schoolers like me only ever play SBG so have no real need for movement trays other than for displaying figures.

I don't play WotR nor do I intend to. I retracted in a latter post due to resolutions similar to what you just said.

Should I edit the first post anyone?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:31 pm 
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Ah yes your suggestion of an optional discount on the movement trays if bought with a box set makes a lot more sense. Can't see GW going for it though. The word 'discount' doesn't appear to be in their vocabulary. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:53 pm 
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ukfreddybear wrote:
Ah yes your suggestion of an optional discount on the movement trays if bought with a box set makes a lot more sense. Can't see GW going for it though. The word 'discount' doesn't appear to be in their vocabulary. :roll:

I know, right? In White Dwarf nearly every month, they give out coupons for 10% off a purchase--with stipulations. It can only be used at a newly opening official GW Hobby Center and the total cost has to be $50 or more. And then some other standard coupon stuff, one use only, no photocopies, etc. I think that's the only discount I've ever seen them offer.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:57 pm 
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ANother thing that bugs me is old obsolete supplements and rulebooks. You should be able to trade those in for a discount off of a new rulebook that makes them obsolete. But instead, my RotK and Pellenor Fields books sit unused because of the One Rulebook. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Retail price is also governed by the expected sales and set up costs to make the models. You will only want one Beregond but may have a dozen guard archers but cost the same to design and make, thats whay heroes alway's cost more than rank and file.

Very delayed response, but this just hit me. While I completely agree with your idea (in fact its less of an idea and more of a fact), it still doesn't make sense to me that the two Fellowship sets--The Fellowship of the Ring and The Breaking of the Fellowship--cost $53.75 and $45 respectively. The Breaking of the Fellowship models are more detailed and better resemble the actors. In addition, with the cloaks, the models would take more metal to make. Surely they both required the same amount of designing and research--and seeing as you can get the Fellowship uncloaked in the Mines of Moria set, wouldn't the demand for the Fellowship of the Ring boxed set be a lot lower?

Another thing that irks me is when GW converts metal boxes to plastic boxes, then completely jipps you with the price. Monstrous creatures are much more of a pain to put together in metal than plastic, but when the box is converted shouldn't there be a significant price drop? Again, as you said hithero, price is based on demand, not material, so if they got rid of the metal box and replaced it with plastic, the demand would be the same, and GW would recieve a greater profit, but it is annoying and dastardly. The old metal Balrog boxed set featured a detailed Balrog mini and also contained a Gandalf miniature and cost I think around $50. Now, there is a plastic Balrog, which does not look as good, and contains no exclusive minis, all for the now-same-price of $50. And how about that new Ringwraith on Fell Beast? I think the old one looked better and it came with an exclusive Frodo miniature; the new one is made of plastic, for the same price, and cotains an extra Ringwraith body that is useless unless one has an extra horse lying about. GW got rid of the LotR components section a long time ago. I do not have an extra horse lying around.

Speaking of LotR bitz and pieces...how about those Balrog wings, eh everybody? :wink:

Edit. Bitz and Pieces. Well, I didn't want this entire post to be a complaint, so I do actually have a contructive idea for GW based on my last sentance. The components section of the LotR range was one of my favorite aspects of ordering from GW. I liked getting a single mini from a blister pack rather than having to pay for minis that I did not want or need--and I wouldn't mind seeing the horses brought back as available to purchase seperately, and let's not forget about the ''conversion sprue.'' Imo, GW would generate a lot of sales if they added a little more to the LotR bitz range besides the $10 Balrog wings. I can't see a negative on their end by doing so, but I'm sure somebody can.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:46 am 
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unfortunatley the reason for manyn models costing more now is remaking stuff into plastics if u have anyidea how much it costs todo go into ure local gw store ask them bout the new machines they use for making the moulds i think the bane blade mould alone cost 40k (sniggers) the prices increase in order to pay 4 the moulds themselves and the cost of running the machines same with metals the actual cost or the metal is pennys rele when u think they probly buy it by the ton but a character probly has the same size mould as th 3 womt there fore production cost is basicly the same

ps i apologise for spelling and grammar and i do not work for gw either
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:29 pm 
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senoja wrote:
unfortunatley the reason for manyn models costing more now is remaking stuff into plastics if u have anyidea how much it costs todo go into ure local gw store ask them bout the new machines they use for making the moulds i think the bane blade mould alone cost 40k (sniggers) the prices increase in order to pay 4 the moulds themselves and the cost of running the machines same with metals the actual cost or the metal is pennys rele when u think they probly buy it by the ton but a character probly has the same size mould as th 3 womt there fore production cost is basicly the same

ps i apologise for spelling and grammar and i do not work for gw either

I understand that, but why is nearly every other company's prices a lot lower than GW?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:01 pm 
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but why is nearly every other company's prices a lot lower than GW?


Because other companies don't have the same overheads to pay. Think how many stores GW rent across the world, with utilities bills to pay for each. Each store has maybe 3 or 4 employees all on a salary. Other companies can afford to take a smaller profit margin because they have none of that to budget for and worry about.

If GW closed every single store and fired all their retail staff then their outgoings would be massively reduced so the minis could be cheaper. But would we really want that?

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