Ok, Legolas wasn't one of the Eldar, but we're not talking about the Eldar here! We're talking about the Silvan Elves, so that's not a sufficent excuse.

I'm assuming that second "Aragorn" is supposed to be Boromir?

_________________
"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings

This makes no reference to elves being stronger, it says they were equal, and in that time men will have become weaker, and so have elves (or at least the Silvan evles weren't as strong as the Noldor), i personnaly don't see the problem here, just keep the strengths of the 2 races equal, then we can use these quotes to sort out other characteristics such as courage and FV, which i liked at 2 as it mean that you had to do something different if you were using this army.

However, the public have spoken, but we still have not decided what the fight value will be, and i think, if we are going to raise it, it should only go to 3.

_________________
Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP

A Sylvan Elf profile is somewhat problematic just because, alone of all the Elf races, they are found across Middle Earth from the 1st even into the 4th Ages. I like Whafrog's original profile, but bumping the F to 4 and then adding a point to their cost.

F...4/3+
S...3
D...3
A...1
W...1
C...4
Pts...8

Wargear


Special Rules:



The main problem I see with this profile is the extremely low Defence, but F4, their superior archery, and with the Special rules, they would be ok in woodland areas. Sylvan elves in any other terrain would be in big trouble.

Since the Mr Average thread decided that we're stuck with "3" as an average, I think it's better to just make them equal. Otherwise the degree of difference makes too big a difference in the game.



To compare with their enemies, here's what I was proposing for the orcs (they're all really just orcs):

Goblins: F2/S2
Orcs: F2/S3
Uruks: F3/S3

(not sure yet about Uruk hai and half orcs)

So for Sylvan Elves to have F3 doesn't seem to be a big problem, especially since they have Stealth and Unerring Shot.

I'm thinking F3 and still the extra point. Also, I was convinced earlier in this thread that Unerring Shot should exclude shooting into combat. It's already a really big boost.

Sounds good. As you can tell from my suggestion, I like the original profile pretty much as it was.
My only other suggestion is that the Uruk-Hai retain their STR 4. As GW has them at F4/S4 theyre pretty unstoppable but they should definitely be above "Mr. Average" or they're just another Orc.
Otherwise the Sylvans and other Orcs seem good to me.

The thing about uruk hai was their discipline and tenacity, not their size or strength. I figure they'd have higher courage, and/or some equivalent to a bodyguard rule, but still have S3.

In any case, it's pretty clear the biggest people in Middle Earth were Men and Elves.

So here's a compromise between my profile and Flame's, keep in mind the refactoring of other races that is going to be done (noted in a post above). I'm also thinking that Unerring shot is worth at least an extra point, so I've kept the profile at 8 points.

F...3/3+
S...3
D...3
A...1
W...1
C...4
Pts...8

Wargear
Their profile includes a short elf bow (as Dwarf bow), but they are otherwise considered to be unarmed. They may trade their bow for a hand weapon at no extra cost. They wear no armour.
Other equipment:
Upgrade short bow to elf bow, hand weapon, Wood Elf spear...1 point
Throwing daggers, elf bow...2 points

Special Rules:
Woodcraft: move through difficult woodland terrain with no penalty
Stealth: Sylvan elves are as if wearing an elf cloak when in, or at least partially obscured by, wooded terrain or foliage.
Unerring shot: a Sylvan Elf is able to ignore one "in-the-way" roll when shooting with a bow. This does not include shooting into combat.

BTW, I think we could have some fun with the elites here. Sentinels are great, but very expensive. Consider Bilbo's experience in Mirkwood...blinding light, disorientation...

I would suggest that Silvan elves also be given a rule similar to "Dol Amroth For Gondor!" but have it be based on Galadriel instead? The Silvan within Lothlorien would seem to have nearly worshipped her. Or perhaps a Bodyguard rule, but only applying to her? I sincerely doubt any Silvan would have fled if she was leading.

"For the Lady: All Lothlorien Elves with 12"/48cm of Galadriel always count as being under the effects of a banner, as her presence inspires them to greater acts of courage."

Sounds more like a possible rule for Galadriel than the Sylvan elves themselves.

Probably true, was just going off the way "Dol Amroth for Gondor" is included in the profiles for all Arnor men-and refers to Imrahil.

I like the Sylvan elf profile just as Whafrog has suggested, and don't believe it needs any more tinkering. I see them being one of the most interesting units in the game at this point with their low defence, yet superior ranged ability and the ability to dominate woodland terrain.

That being said, the Silvan Elves do need some elite units.

Won't the amount and type of terrain have too much of an effect on how good they are?

_________________
"There are few left in Middle Earth like Aragorn, son of Arathorn." - Gandalf, Many Meetings