700pts

#Dol Guldur#
-Spider Queen-75pts
-5xGiant Spiders-125pts
-Bat swarm-35pts
-24xorcs-144 (8xshield,8xspear,4xorc bow,4x2h.w)

#Isengard Raiders#
-Ulguk-55pts
-15xUruk Scouts-130pts
(5xorc bow, 5xshield)

#Moria#
-Durbrz-60pts
15xGoblins-75pts
(5x spear,5x shield,5x orcbow)

Total:63
50%32
Bow:14
Might:8

I have no experience with goblins and uruks w.s.e but I do want to give it a try playing with different armies mixed together, so any C&C welcome on how to improve this army specifically the "moria" and "isengard raiders" thx

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

I would drop the Moria list altogether and take some warg riders or wild wargs to help make a screen for your giant spiders which are rather fragile. Maybe get a wild warg chieftan as well if you took wild wargs or sharku if you took warg riders. Then with the left over points I would get some more scouts and orcs.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

I play Goblins (Moria, and Dwellers Below), and they work if you know how to play them. I would drop the Goblin Bowmen though, since i've never found them to be very effective. In their place I would use more Goblins with shields. Better yet, I would make the entire Moria force consist of Goblin Prowlers and use them as support (since they're deadly in that regard).

So I decided for the Powlers, as I looked thow their rules, I was impressed and wanted to give them a Go

#Dol Guldur#
-Spider Queen-75pts
-5xGiant Spiders-125pts
-Bat swarm-35pts
-24xOrcs-138pts
(8xshield,8xspear,7xorcbow)

#Isengard Raiders#
-Ugluk-55pts
-5xuruk scouts-40pts
-5x Uruk scouts w/shields-90pts
-5x Uruk scouts w/orc bow-45pts

#Moria#
-Durburz-60pts
-12x Goblin Powlers-84pts
(4xorc bow,4xshield,4x2.h weap)

Total:59
50%:30
Bow:16xorc bow
Might:8

So overall the model count went down a little bit, but i do think that powlers are much more useful due to their backstabber rule and throwing weapons. any more suggestions?

Btw thx for the idea on the powlers and wargs, but I´m not soo keen on mounted army right now as I don´t like the fact that "warg riders lose their charge bonus when they don´t charge, but ill consider them in my next army)



And the reason why I do include the "orc bow" in my army ranks is that, we don´t have any specific sceneriouseintended, instead we shall roll for them. Thats the same reason why I want someone with "cave dweller rule" and fast moving (Bat,Spiders) units. This army aims to be multi purposed

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

That list looks good. With the Spiders, Bats and Prowlers you'll have plenty of nasty surprises for your opponent.

The only thing I have to add is that you shouldn't use your Bats as an attack unit, only as support. Bats don't last long in direct combat, their best use is to take advantage of their speed and have them fly around helping your warriors. Not only will they add extra dice to a combat, but their swarm ability will always make the odds in your favor.

Be sure to give us an update to let us know how this list plays out in battle.

your army lacks bows. if your up against cavalry then they will literaly run rings around you, pelting your guys with arrows... and you will never catch them.....

also, you really need a meat shield for the spiders (id drop one spider as well), their super low d means that they will have to take all precausions against bows... otherwise you will easily lose 50pts in one shooting phase... (fyi, your enemy probably knows the power of the spider queen and so will probably direct all firepower on her...)

moreover, im in favor of dropping 3 spiders for another queen (you lose 2 spiders, but you gain one of the most powerful cc hero) although that leaves you less pts for warg riders

about the prowlers, switch the shields for 2h. spread the prowlers amongst your orcs and let the 2hs help out in combats.... the bow armed prowlers should move forward while shooting... slowly outflanking... (you would be amazed how much trouble a lone outflanking bow armed prowler can be....)

drop the regular uruks and make them into warg riders to flank and shield your spiders (something that you really need)
(also, the uruks are expensive and so not having a shield means that they will die twice as quickly to bows... so unless they are shielded by other models, give them a shield. this is something that i always do when i us scouts)

Well thx all for the input, now let me reply...

#I´m a veteran Dol Guldur Player so yes I do know how to play with Bats but thx anyway

#Im not against cavalry, Im against elves, High elves probably with Glorfindel and Erestoror maybe even Dwarves (which I prefer more cause I find them to be weaker on the whole than elves)

#I can´t include any more Spider Queens cause they she was made into "a unique hero" type, meaning she is a named hero, and as such you can´t have more than one, it´s in the latest erratas i think...

#About Uruks and Shields, elvish bow with strength 3, Wont matter as the score on wounding defense 4 or 5 is still D6 5+,

#I think I might use the Powlers as you suggested as it seems and interesting way to use ´em.

#I don´t know about the spiders about 5 in my army has been always a standard count for them. I do find their low defense disturbing (BUT is has more to do with my tactics and how I use them). Usually use them to great efficiency, killing 1-2 models per Spider a turn, though in the last game they pretty much got slaughtered one by one, by Murin and Drar but I managed to pull the victory with Spider Queen.

No really I dont want any warg riders, seriously, drop it

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

Sorry to say but even though you are a veteran Dol Goldur player, which I totally believe, you need a meat shield as Shadowswarm said for your spiders. Mainly because you are fighting elves. Elf bows will wound your spiders on 4+ so that will definetely hurt. Not nescesarily warg riders but perhaps some wild wargs, I'm afraid you will get shot to pieces if you don't give them some cover, (trust me, I know, I have played elves ALOT). Also, this isn't really vital but have you considered taking Druzag for your goblins instead of Durburz? I think he would prove his worth as you would easily be able to take out any uber heroes if you did enrage beast on the spider queen. That would be 5 F9 attacks plus 10 S9 blows if you won combat (which odds are you will) or 20 if you surround him with broodlings!!! You could always play test the different armies, and I'm not trying to be bossy or anything and I'm sorry if you feel like I am but I'm just simply trying to help.

Hope this was helpful!

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Did I say anyone here being bossy? ;D i was just explaining My point of view, as I am now...

I understand what you are saying for giant spiders, but all is good, i keep em behind the main army or have them lurking around from terrain cover to terrain cover... Never ever have these little creatures been shot in my games...

and yes i have considered him too , but the reason why I chose Durburz was his M/W/F and stand fast x2 range... But I may as well give him a try too pretty soon.

in this army i would have formaton close to something like this

OOOO
OOOO
UUUU
SSSS
GGGG

o-orc
u-uruks
s-spiders/bats/queen
g-goblins/Durburz

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

why is your battle line so deep????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!

you will quickly be surrounded, even by elves

not to mention that i dont see the point of having goblins at the back... they are the meat shields etc....

with a line that deep the units like the uruks will be stuck at the back with nothing to do....



anyway, seeing that you are facing elves, you can make some slight changes.

i would switchout some of the orcs for goblins and have them do some flanking type stuff (a small group mainly to distract the enemy). and seeing that all bows are s3, drop most of the shields (shielding in usful) and give them spears (or bows if feel like it ) cause then you have lots of spear support even when the line gets messed up (and to support prowlers that choose not to wield 2h)....

a side note, you have express/expained for the absence of wargs and riders, but i think that having a few wargs (3-5) would be great, hears y:

they are fast and can head for archers/outflank etc... their main purpose would be to distract the enemy and and divert their attention (chaos makes it hard for the enemy to make good tactical decisions) not to mention that having a few expendable/fast models gives you ALOT of flexability.

most people like to have a large block of sheilds w/ cavalry and bows somewhere else. i do that and more, i have a few small(and cheap) groups of models that flank and attack at the best moment (or try to shut down bowmen)

even if you dont agree, i think that at some point you should try it



how do my comments end up so long....

You got me alittle bit wrong...

the first row of orcs, will the the shield wall "or cannon meat"

Uruks will dived and attack from the sides and Spiders/bats will try to get to the rear...

The reason why I left goblins at the back row, is that their movement is much slower than that of an orc, so they will get to fight litle bit later, giving support where needed

My opponent keeps his elves tightly together, so that is the reason why I need such a big "trapping" ring...

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

Is he experienced with elves? Because keeping elves in a very tight formation is nearly always a bad idea as he will be surrounded easily and he won't be able to get many into combat at a time.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Lets say he has won most of the times, with them, cause I have made many stupid mistakes, but then again I do like to play by them theme and he power games, only Or plays normally but does not include the sence of diffrent themes to his army... mostly using 1/3 of spears,bows,sword troops and using Erestor as a semi hero, and Glorfindel or Gil-Galad as the main hero. Always the same pattern.



But now that we have decided to play by scenerys, I think it will change

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

Using Rivendell is not power-gaming-they are tough to play. If he was a true Powergamer, he would be using Elladan and Elrohir IMHO.

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"Woe to the Vanquished!"
-Brennus-

Yeah, they are actually really underpriced. It is almost like having two Gimlis but with lower defence.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Thats not what i meant. He plays solely for winning and as such does not give a very enjoyable game. Although I do take pleasure in the competition, still I find that what makes this game unique and appealing is the sens of theme.

But then again elves don´t have much to choose from, but he could ally with the wood elves or Numenoreans or even Dwarves , just to bring in some variety.

Playing only for WIN is also a littl bit power gaming, its the same as taking orcs withou shields agains elves, cause the shield bonus doesn´t change anything against stre 3 attack or stre 3 bow. Leaving shileds "at the barrracks" for the extra points is not very honorable thing to do. Same as not fielding any bows , even when the army has the worst shooters ever. No normal army has gone to war with out bows, swords, pikes, spears, etc. Basically you get my point of view

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'

Personally, playing just to win gets boring IMO. I'm not trying to sound all pious and holy but going all out all the time does get boring. It'll be fun to hear what his reaction is when you beat him

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

I've been wanting to know how to play elves. could you make a tactica for elves some time??

it would be much appreciated

anyway, i think that you tactic will work, but with a few changes...

dont put the goblins at the back because when they get to the fighting there wont be enough room for them to work well.... so try as i suggested - have them go on the flanks, this way when the are in range to fight, the will be able to!

and i am now convinced that you need 3ish wargs just to stop enemy archers.... (at lest for a while)


you could get the shadow lord, but you would then have to reconfiger your list.... and i doubt you forget about him so nvm...

I have used Nazgyl too many times, and they eat up a lot of points,

I will use Goblins as the flanking force

What do you mean 3s wargs???

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I am the Mouth of Sauron, here him speak'