Denethor

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

sorry but he said that he gets +3 might to complete the 10 if he gets short on courage test even by 1s. 5+2+3=10

maskrider · **Joined:** Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:46 pm **Posts:** 42

MuslimRohirrim wrote:

IMHO
Neither was Grima at some point, He "was once a man of Rohan".
Though it's another story with Denethor, but after all he looked in the Palantir for long time like Saruman did. The only difference is that he was not promised a kingdom. The eye deluded him into finding the ring for his own sake, while actually he was just another instrument to find it for its original owner. He was exposed to a power beyond his strength so he fell while thinking he's doing the right thing. That's what "Broken Mind" is, I think...acting in the favor of evil while thinking this is the right thing to do for his own true people. In his mind he was not doing it out of treason to his people or for some prize like Grima or Saruman, but he was deluded that it's in the favor of his people. Just another kind of mischief the eye can do to control people.

I skiped alot but did denothor look into the plantir :shock:

doesnt even show tht on the extanted edition

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

that wasn't shown in the movies but it is in the books.

maskrider · **Joined:** Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:46 pm **Posts:** 42

Ah i never did read the books....so that just helps my theming further lol

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

lol
but you have to read them if you have the chance they are great. I think the movies were great in capturing the soul of the story but still there's a lot to enjoy in the books that was hard I think to put all in the movies. especially near the end of the story.

BTW, I found something:

Quote:

Beregond of Gondor

Bodyguard. At the beginning of the game choose one Hero of Gondor among those in
your force for Beregond to protect. As long as this Hero is on the table, Beregond will
automatically pass all Courage tests he has to take. If the Hero is killed or leaves the
table, Beregond reverts to the normal rules for Courage.

can this help Denethor's courage test in anyway?

the director · **Posted:** Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:51 am

nope, that only helps beregond

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

ok, I hope Mouth-of-Sauron explains how he gets the +3 might.
Meanwhile guys please comment the house rules on previous page.

Mouth-of-Sauron · **Joined:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:14 pm **Posts:** 544

Ohh sorry about that :roll:

I meant WILL SILLY ME XD

And he doens´t just restore 1 will He restores all his will in one turn...

And whell I really depends on how you play and against who I play...

I´d more likly preferr to keep him in check than make this POINTLESS sporceros last (DAMN THOSE DICES XD XD XD)

Although yes 1 turn spent on the will healing can be bad BUT how likley does he fail his rolls? to get a 5 with 2D6s is not so hard so I really can´t see the problem...

And Sorceros blast isn´t the best spell what gandalf has...

The Blinding Light, Immobilise and the Will of iron are far more useful :roll:

Though when I have a Free chance then I ofcourse cast Sorceros blast

Cause I´m a ranged player (CG w/bows, Avengers and so then Blinding light is Critical for my army) :roll:

But in my army Denethor has not Lost a single courage test :roll:

Mouth-of-Sauron · **Joined:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:14 pm **Posts:** 544

WHOOOO WTF HIS COURAGE IS 4??????????

NOW THAT`S A PROBLEM.... WTF LIKE WHY WHY WHY....

WHEN DID THEY CHANCE THE RULES??????

And about his "BROKEN MIND"

He was NEVER under the control of the EYE like Saruman

Denethor was very strong willed and Sauron could nver broke his will BUT Sauron showd him in palantir THINGS that no mortal beeing should see...

He showed Denethor his land his vast armyes of orcs and the Future of ash, dust and ruins.

So Denethor fell into depair and he went crazy,.... :roll:

Joansean · **Joined:** Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:23 pm **Posts:** 760

Mouth-of-Sauron wrote:

WHOOOO WTF HIS COURAGE IS 4??????????

NOW THAT`S A PROBLEM.... WTF LIKE WHY WHY WHY....

WHEN DID THEY CHANCE THE RULES??????

And about his "BROKEN MIND"

He was NEVER under the control of the EYE like Saruman

Denethor was very strong willed and Sauron could nver broke his will BUT Sauron showd him in palantir THINGS that no mortal beeing should see...

He showed Denethor his land his vast armyes of orcs and the Future of ash, dust and ruins.

So Denethor fell into depair and he went crazy,.... :roll:

They never changed the rules.. he's still C5.

Saruman was never under the control of Sauron. why do you think he sent his Ringwraiths to check up on him , and why do you think Saruman would keep the ring for himself if he was controlled entirely by Sauron?

and Denethor had a strong will , but the continuous attacks of Mordor and the Death of Boromir brought him down on his knees , as it would do to any man and woman..

:wink:

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

The change C4 was mine for house rules. sorry if I confused you.

ok, so we're back to only 5+courage test. Nice play if you haven't lost a courage test with him...

He went crazy and worked against the will of the good, no matter if he was willing or not the Eye got into his mind and pushed him do the edge for his own benefit in a way no matter by the despair or not. again he was under the illusion of getting the ring for himself but he was not. The Ey managed to play with his head to push him to work to his benefit even if it was not his intention. His acts from this point on was against the good people.

Grima also was played with his mind by prizes or by the voice of Saruman but he was aware of what side he's on. That's the main difference I guess and that's why Grima's effect should always be to the evil side from start to end, but Denethor should start with a good effect but goes on and off with a roll of a dice.

What I am saying that I think so little good player would put him on the field though his good stats, some even think 3 high elves is good enough for same cost, while evil players would love to add him for the possibility if the odds are right. and I think the later adds some more excitement to the game.

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

Quote:

Saruman was never under the control of Sauron.

By under his control I meant working for the same cuase and to his benefit. Remember even the orcs under his command would never hesitate to take what they think they can. Remember Shagrat and Gorbag. Loyality doesn't matter in the world of evil. so control never equals loyality in this world it's just short term contract on benefits.

As for Denethor, his will was broken at the time of battle and I think this is when

Again guys, I don't diagree at all with you on his attitude away from his motives, it's how to include him in more games is what I am looking for. He'll even be a banner for the good people if he's under their control (which is not even in the current rules)

I just think that the evil player would be more eager even relevantly to put him in the field than the good player. He'll still have the same attitude and character, he'll start under the good player's control, he'll just be controlled by evil side only one turn if he fails the courage test.

So I guess no big difference except who is gonna chance to put him in more, the good side or the evil side. With tese house rules I vote for the evil people!!
So the big question here is, who would you vote here for?

Joansean · **Joined:** Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:23 pm **Posts:** 760

MuslimRohirrim wrote:

Quote:

Saruman was never under the control of Sauron.

By under his control I meant working for the same cuase and to his benefit. Remember even the orcs under his command would never hesitate to take what they think they can. Remember Shagrat and Gorbag. Loyality doesn't matter in the world of evil. so control never equals loyality in this world it's just short term contract on benefits.

Wise words indeed. :wink:

But Control is very Different of Being on the same side.

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

Right, but also sometimes rules of the game may be somehow manipulated just for sake a of a good game for this character I think.

Remember the rules of the riders of the dead, not exactly what they are, but they are manipulated not to ruin the game. :wink:

Now after all, with the house rules he'll start the game controlled by the same side (no change here), and still acts the exact same way (change control on a courage test roll). Only who puts him on the table is what that would really change with a little bit of motivation (less courage with some might for good side to resist) to add him against a balanced risk (banner for good people).

whafrog · **Posted:** Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:40 pm

MuslimRohirrim wrote:

Right, but also sometimes rules of the game may be somehow manipulated just for sake a of a good game for this character I think.

Sometimes they manipulate the profiles to reflect the likely outcome of the story. Sometimes I like it, sometimes not. For example, I have no problem with Boromir having two profiles, one before the Ring affects him, and one after. But giving Gil-Galad or Elendil 1 Fate just because they died at the last battle doesn't make sense to me. What about all the battles before that? Using that logic, any battle set earlier in the second age should mean GG's invincible or something. Silly.

Seems to me a profile should reflect the character's native abilities, and should not reflect the outcome of a single scenario unless, as with Boromir, there are multiple profiles based on certain other conditions.

ReaKon · **Posted:** Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:28 pm

Mouth-of-Sauron wrote:

And he doens´t just restore 1 will He restores all his will in one turn...

I always thought that the strengthen will power of Gandalf's only restored one point of will. Can't say I have read it up in the OR rulebook for a while though...

maskrider · **Joined:** Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:46 pm **Posts:** 42

lol pretty sure its all...a very useful ability.....frodo cant fall victim to the ring :twisted:

Galhadrim elf · **Joined:** Sat May 10, 2008 2:44 pm **Posts:** 4

let me just say this;

what cant you get form denathor what you cant get from three high elves!

same points better stats

MuslimRohirrim · **Joined:** Tue May 27, 2008 7:19 am **Posts:** 311

Hey, Galhadrim Elf (Ranger) :wink:

, so here is the source of this suggestion. Originally it was his, just to give him the credit!! :lol:

Mouth-of-Sauron · **Joined:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:14 pm **Posts:** 544

Stengheten Will: REstores all the targets Will, but if the taget has 0 will as his base profile then gandalf is able to upgrade it to 1 [no more]

Like Theodon haivng 2/0/2 could have 2/1/2

Quote:

Saruman was never under the control of Sauron. why do you think he sent his Ringwraiths to check up on him , and why do you think Saruman would keep the ring for himself if he was controlled entirely by Sauron?

SRY about that :roll:

ofcourse I knew that hé was never under his control. Saruman wanted the ring for his own BUT SARUMAN was looking for power aso. thus he was very easy to corrupt by Sauron SO he was in some way his TOOL but now that you mentiond it then Denethor too was SAURONS TOOL aswell as Gollum ( Sauron let him go I hope taht Gollum will lead him to the Ring or something like that) :roll:

Denethor is problematic character to play with
Only Gandalf can keep him in check for me and whell yes there have been some times when another immobilise or Sorceros blast would have been very useful BUT denethor is too dangerouse to just let him go crazy :roll:

And he [ in my experiences ] has a far more better usefulness than a Sorceros blast :roll:

Denethor

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