Josephaghababa, excellent timing on your recent victory with the Dwarves Baruk Khazad!!

Losing a Vault Warden to S2 bowfire! Ouch!

What sort of enemy were you facing? I hope you'll share with us how you used your IG and VW (if you had any left) in the battle. Did they have much of an affect on the way the battle was fought?

That VW loss is like when Rohan almost took out my Isengard Troll (Def on the FIRST TURN with volley fire.

For all their abilities, I see the greatest weakness of the Dwarves being their movement rate. Although 5" isn't as bad as some other races, it's still enough of a difference when facing man-sized or mounted forces.

Very few formations stand up thru an entire game. Often, after the main forces clash and the melee really begins things start to break down quickly into a few separate core battle. These mini-battles may range from a few warriors to half or more of your force depending on how things split up. Some times it's determined by flanking maneuvers, or terrain, or the need to send troops against certain objectives, etc. As you achieve victory in one of these areas, you move some of the forces off to assist your troops in the other areas. If you are having problem in an area you have to decide if you want to let your forces there be overwhelmed (perhaps just slowing down the enemy for a while) or if you want to reinforce it. So the key is to try to establish these battles on YOUR terms and deny your oponent the ability to do likewise.

That small difference of 1" on the base movement rate can actually be pretty critical under these conditions. If I'm playing an army with a full 6" movement then I can try to keep the fights a little further apart (either fall back or rush to establish control zones where I wish), thereby reducing the number of models you may be able to shift between hot zones in a single turn. You are also a little more limited on your Heroic Actions. For example, sometimes an Heroic Move is made to keep outside of an opponent's reach, but if your opponent can move 1" further each turn then your move may still not be enough to escape.

Dwarves also have a difference when it comes to navigating terrain. A small ledge that "biggies" can hop on easily may require you to roll, and what is a basic jump test for someone else may be a climb. May not be too big of a deal, but any terrain advantage when played right can help control a situation. I have played against a Moria opponent that uses their special climb rule to outmaneuver his enemy in unexpected ways.

None of these issues are enough to really reduce the effectiveness of the Dwarves, simply to highlight a significant tactical limitation that the player should keep always in the front of their mind, whether you are controlling them or facing them as an opponent. Most players, myself included, have probably played 90% of their games controlling models with a full 6" movement. That has molded they way you view the board and think about how you manage your forces. Until you play with the shorter move enough times you need to keep this in the front of your mind. Likewise, as someone playing against the Dwarves you must keep this moement in mind and leverge it to the best of your ability.

Not trying to "talk down" to the Dwarves. They will probably be my next Good army in fact. Just some tactical food for thought.

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Beowulf

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I was fighting against a Mordor-Easterling force so plenty of orcs and pikes to deal with.

Since I was experimenting, I only had 3 vault wardens in my force. I took them with Mardin and some shielded warriors. Because I placed the VW in the centre, meant that I could penetrate the centre of his orc 'formation', and slowly move inwards.

My main battle line managed to hold out for several turns against the Easterling spearmen, in which I could gradually spread warriors along his phalanx and surround the block. After a few turns of tough fighting, I managed to start trapping his troops.

It was an incredibly close victory that was eventually decided on points (due to fatigue) and I clinched it by 40 or so points (in a 600 point battle).

On another note, I had another battle today against a similar force (750 pts), it contained:
Witch King w/ Morgul Blade
Mordor Troll Chieftan
Orc Captain
Easterling Captain
Orc banner
Easterling banner
Around 30 or so orcs (bows, spears, shields, 2H weapons)
Around 20 or so Easterling (bows, pikes, swords)

My force had (I can't exactly remember):
Durin
Mardin
Dwarf Banner
24 dwarf warriors
16 dwarf rangers (8 with longbows, 8 with 2H weapons)
3 Dwarf Tunnel fighting team
Dwarf Ballista

As you can see, my force was outnumbered...and they had a troll! Still, I had Durin and his trusty captain Mardin and I expected to be outnumbered.

My VW, some rangers, and Mardin headed to a small blockable pass on the left of the battlefield. Any orcs that even attempted to break through would fail, so I knew that I couldn't be flanked. Towards the left my warriors advanced with Durin leading the advance. My opponent advanced his force forward including that damn troll.

The centre of the map was a no-go area for the whole game due to continuous exchange of arrows, only once did I venture out with my warriors, and lost 5 shielded dwarves to man bows. Fortunately, I had my ballista and 3+ rangers which invariably made me defeat his archers and allowed me to fire at his main Easterling force. I didn't fire at the troll.

On the left flank, I charged into my friend's small orc reserve of about 15 troops, including a captain and banner, I maintained formation wityh my VW and Mardin which allowed my rangers to attack at the sides. The captain was killed in one turn by the VWs and his orcs died within 2 turns...ruthless dwarven efficieny!. The left combat was going well, until the troll. I attacked it with 10 attacks whilst holding together a very thin line of warriors against the phalanx...a risky move. After 3 turns of moderate success on the front line (considering I had fewer attacks) I finally won a fight against the troll (He had a higher fight value but this time he failed to roll a 6) - it was trapped, and suffered 18 dwarven attacks - 6 of which were from Durin's Axe. Some good rolling allowed me to kill the troll that turn.

After a few turns of massacre, my friend gave up - The only thing he had left was the WK, Easterling captain, a few orcs and some Easterling warriors. Not a lot considering I still had around 80% of my force left.

I hope these experimental battles have helped with Dwarf tactics. I will follow this discussion with interest.

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Beowulf03809, your comments about the 5" ,movement rate of the Dwarves are extremely astute. Your right that it's easy to assume that 1" isn't much of a difference. You've given me a whole new perspective on it now that I'm starting to build a Dwarven army. Many thanks!

Josephaghababa, that's a great summary of your battle. It sounds like you used your Dwarves very effectively. I was worried that this Tactical Discussion on the new Dwarves would be all hypothetical since I wasn't sure if people would have a chance to try them out so soon after their release. But your experience with them will surely be of great benefit to anyone planning to play Dwarves (including myself).

What did you think about the Vault Wardens? Would you use them again? It sounds like they were very useful in anchoring your battle line. How do you think an opponent would try to overcome them?

Joseph I think you got a bit mixed up- the first battle was when I cornered your dwarven warriors, the second one was when you started trapping my easterlings.

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Just to add my own $.02, did some number-crunching the other day, and found out that the Dwarf rangers, despite their costly bows, are actually very good for their points value. Though you can get more of the regular bowmen, the Rangers hit more often, and against D4 and D6 targets they do more damage. Combine with the fact that you can hit further with the Rangers, it makes them a very attractive option, perhaps more-so then normal troops.

Thanks for the effort and input, Lupino. Properly playing your army is critical to success, but any wargame boils down a lot to numbers and where things fall on the bell curve. Having the statistical advantage on yourside makes things a lot nicer when the dice start hitting the table.

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Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

wow some great advice. I have been watching this topic off and on and it really is useful. I played my first battle with the new dwarves list on sunday. I was dissapointed that Erebor could not invest in getting VWT's but hey no matter!

I was up against a 600 pt moria force which as far as i new looked like this

1 moria captain w. shield
1 moria captain w. shield
1 moria shaman
1 moria drum team
1 giant bat swarm
2 cave trolls
38 goblins
410

My force had

Gimli (with his new rule - so cool)
Dwarf Captain
Dwarf Banner
6 Iron Guard
9 Rangers - 3 of each
5 khazad guard
6 dwarf bowmen
6 dwarf axemen
6 dwarves w. shield and axes

So basically what happened was i sent my dwarven bowmen and rangers with bows on the flank hoping to thin the enemy down. I had formed two wedges (triangles) with the heroes at the front of each. They met like this
Hero = H
Warrior = W

H H
W W W W
W W W

The line was much larger as was the gap and things were looking up. For the first few turns bowfire went my way and i advanced on the enemy. Once engaged my force remained sturdy and any deaths were quickly accounted for by re-enforcing the line. The Iron guard were simply outstanding especially with the banner, as they must have killed about 25-30 points each of goblins by the end.

Unfortunately the drums made life difficult but i quickly broke any formation he had because of my set up and my banner re-rolls. Gimli perished on the 3rd to last turn of the game - how unfortunate but other than that there isnt anything that this force cant do!

Dwarven lines are thin if you really want them to work, but i found that this technique is useful for breaking any formation the enemy may have.

think thats it, until the dragon tactics...

I would imagine that VWG are superb in holding the line however try comparing their defence of 9 to that of a cave troll's 6, or a dragon's 7.

I agree, its just that in the first, I was winning the Dwarf-Easterling conflict because I began trapping them. In the grand scheme of things you had my smaller force surrounded, but most of your force was not yet in battle.

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I'm glad to see that this topic is really cooking, I've read some very good tactical comments and it's very cool that we have some members actually playing with this troops already.

The 1" comment is a great one to think about. I've always thought of Dwarves as being primarily defensive as far as tactics go, the movement being a factor. I had noticed early on that the new Rangers with their increased bow strength and range might be a big factor in making up for the previous lack of range for Dwarves. One thought is that a slow advance at half movement (to allow bow fire) will now be more effective.

In addition, I'm guessing that the Ballista will add some much needed punch and range for these troops. I'm also interested in hearing more about how the Vault Wardens might add a very serious roadblock or anchor point for a sturdy front line.
As a frequent opponent of Dwarves, I'm very interested in how to overcome them. Defense 9 means that it will be very hard to take them down by range weapons. I'm beginning to think that I would either ignore them if possible or do my best to flank them. Any ideas?

HEROES
What I haven't seen yet is any discussion about the new Heroes? Any comments about Mardin?

Again, great discussion so far, thanks everyone.

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I believe it is increased bow range, and decreased strength...

The new Ballista is quite nasty- its basically a Grenade launcher from WH40K (think small blast template...) only with dwarves, not ImpGuard. With superior construction, you can get almost 96" range out of it. (reminds me of another ImpGuard weapon... *cough* -basilisk- *cough*) Silly goblins -not to mention anything else- have much in the way of stuff that can shoot that far...

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Lorderkenbrand, another excellent battle summary and another excellent victory for the Dwarves! It sounds like these Dwarves can be pretty tough to beat if used well and if given victory conditions that don't require fast movement like "Sieze the Prize" from LOME.

The Ballista does sound quite nasty. Has anyone had any experience with it in a game?

The Rangers are an interesting addition. I believe that BrightLance is right that the Dwarven Longbows have increased range and decreased strength since they act like regular "Human" Bows. This brings up a tough choice. Is it better to take Rangers with a better chance to hit and longer range, but less chance to wound and less armor? Or is it better to take Warriors with Short Bows with a lower chance to hit and shorter range, but more chance to wound and better armor? I think I'll have to experiment with this one.

Ballistas, Longbows and Rangers with Throwing Axes....it seems to me that you could make a pretty "shooty" army of Dwarves now if you wanted.

Here's the actual calculations I did about the two, if anyone sees a math error please chim in

Assuming 100pts of Bowmen and Rangers

10 Rangers
Hits: 6.66
Wounds D3: 2.22 D4: 2.22 D5: 1.11 D6: 1.11 D7: .555 D8: .370 D9: .185

11 Bowmen
Hits: 5.55
Wounds D3: 2.75 D4: 1.83 D5: 1.83 D6: .916 D7: .916 D8: .458 D9: .305

hehe...I forgot to mention that...
In my second game, the use of the ballista allowed me lots of freedom. My archers and ballista literally controlled the centre of the map and when my opponent needed to reinforce a fight on one side of the battlefield, he found his reinforcements being torn to pieces. Piercing shot is lethal, and as well as killing loads of orcs, it helped to slow down my opponent's advance.



At first, I thought that I would use these guys in my front line, however there are a few problems - it means that you must keep a rigid formation along the whole line, otherwise you will find that as surrounding troops die, your VW are left isolated and can be flanked. It also means that you must decide between a hero in the centre, or the VWs.

Personally, I have found them best for holding strategic positions or actually using the shields for covering my archers as they move forward and fire.

I think the best use I found, was to team them up with some elites (I used IG) and a captain (I used Mardin since he fits in with the spear and shield theme) and chuck in a couple of lightly armoured warriors (armed with 2H axes) or rangers. This small group is great at eliminating threats such as trolls, heroes, and archer bands - especially since the hero can use his might on the whole group.

Any thoughts?
Joe

EDIT: I hope nobody saw that...

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Lupino wrote


Lupino, thanks for the calculations! They are very helpful. Now I see what you mean about the Rangers having a better chance of wounding D4 and D6 targets.

Regarding Mardin, I generally don't think that heroes are at their best when using support weapons like spears since they aren't directly in the combat. It's also harder for them to lead charges or do other things if they are behind a shield wall. The bonus against trolls is OK as long as Mardin is fighting trolls. But I really like Joe's idea to use him in a team of VWs and elites to hunt down key threats as he described here:

josephaghababa wrote

I understand what you mean, but in this case it may not be that bad. If he's "supporting" some of the more powerful Dwarves then he can have the extra protection of being in "support" during your clash with the front line of troops. Then, when your own front line has either dispatched a couple foes to punch a hole or made a gap in the ZoC, you can move Mardin forward.

I use a similar tactic often with my Uruk Hai with a couple sword/shield troops in front and a Captain (usually teamed with a Beserker) tucked in the second rank with the pikes. Rather than risk tying up the high defense and killing capabilities of the Captain / Beserker with fighting basic warriors or exposing them to risk of luck bow fire they are one rank back. As I engage I just make sure to leave a gap in my front line so as soon as I slice a hole in the enemy's front line my kill team can spill thru.

And remember, just because he has a spear doesn't mean he HAS to support and has no effect on his own combat capabilities (except for no shield). He can be out front even with the spear if that's where you want him.

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Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Missed that one! Maybe I should read the book again before commenting.

@Lupino, very cool breakdown of the Hit/Wound ratio for the Rangers and regular Dwarf bowmen. Cheers.

Back to work...

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the new dwarves are great overall i especially love the iron guard i tried coupling these with khazad guard and it works quite well. The vault wardens are quite good though not sure if they are worth their points on open battlefields. The new dwarf heroes are also great dain is exceptionally hard to take down. I must say i'm not a big fan of the rangers though some of the models look pretty bad and some of the others resemble men more than dwarves. Overall they are a great addition to the game and will certainly be a challenge to play against with an average of at least def 6 normally

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Gundalf7 wrote:


Gundalf7, I assume you meant Durin not Dain, right?
Durin does seem like a really tough "superhero". However, if you can get past his armor and actually wound him (and that's a big "if"), he doesn't have much Fate. His crown might help prevent a wound occasionally, but the odds are not high enough to count on it. So attacks like Morgul Blade, Chill Soul, Black Dart and Dragon's Breath (we'll be getting to the Dragon soon) may actually be relatively useful to wound or slay Durin.

Does anyone else want to comment on Durin or the Dwarves?

At this time I would like to open up the discussion to include the Goblins and Dwellers Below. There's not much new for the Goblins except the Goblin Prowlers and a new Shaman sculpt. But feel free to also discuss the army lists as well. Would it be worthwhile to use Giant Bats, Wild Wargs, etc.... And what can the Goblins do against these tough new Dwarves? Will the Prowlers make much of a difference in their attempt to rule Khazad-Dum?

Yep! I do...
Durin, for me forms the backbone of my dwarven force in 750+ points battles (along with a captain/Mardin). Durins axe is a potent weapon against high defense enemies. My only concern is his lack of fate - against high strength monsters or heroes, this could lead to his downfall. Anyway, he should be at the front of your force, not cowering at the back. His presence will have an effect on your opponent and they will commit a lot of resources to destroying him. The crown of Kings acts as if a fury spell had been cast on him in relation to fate. Overall (with his 3 wounds) you have a 1 in 3 chance of saving a wound in this way so it is a nice addition.

Overall, he is a great hero and can go toe-to-toe with almost any evil hero or warrior (with the obvious exceptions of Sauron and the Balrog).

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