GW change of CEO

aelfwine · **Joined:** Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:23 am **Posts:** 508

GW is a bit like Starbucks. Everyone likes coffee. Lots of people like having fancier coffees. Lots of people like fancier coffees in a nice coffee shop with wifi.

It's just that if you want such an experience, you likely have Starbucks or nothing. In Canada, you have the choice between two such chains, if you're lucky.

Starbucks, like GW, basically bent the market around themselves. GW spent a lot of time in the late 80s and early 90s doing their utmost to remove all competition. (This is pretty much what Starbucks did to achieve market dominance) They bought out other game shops, rebranded the shops as Games Workshop, stopped selling other things. It pretty much sank much of the mainstream RPG market for years. Warhammer, particularly, is a glorified Dungeons and Dragons setting, and yea verily its designed drew heavily on things they made under license from other people. The links to old Glorantha, LOTR etc are pretty obvious once you know what you're looking for. WH40K looted from the old GW licensed Moorcock inspired RPG material. It's all perfectly legal, but the point is, GW sort of usurped all UK fantasy and science-fiction-fantasy gaming through the 1990s. They built some incredible "fluff" to hold the whole thing together, but it too relies heavily on material created by other people.

Like Dungeons and Dragons in America until the mid 00s, if you wanted fantasy gaming elsewhere, you played Warhammer. There were other options, but it was really the only game in town.

So, lots of people have played Warhammer. Lots of people have played WH40K. They have their own relationships with the game, with the intellectual property. What's more controversial is the company that sells them. People play the games often despite the company that makes them. The big difference is now the market has changed, and there are now more options. With the Hobbit now almost done and dusted, the range will be by and large done. If someone else made a future LOTR range, I'd likely go buy their stuff instead. Miniatures gaming is way bigger than the "GW Hobby"

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

People complain because they care. The games or setting of the games is nice, but people feel alienated by the way GW works. Alternatively, they may not really care themselves, but are concerned that others will go on to play other games because of GW, which reduces the player pool and will eventually kill the games.

And please, don't copy all that 'GW offer the best miniatures' nonsense. When supplied with equally good sculpts, Renedra produces the very same quality. GW have their own facilities because they're big enough to simply save money that way (which of course isn't reflected in their prices, but still). Some of those competitor's products will simply be better too, with many extra options and poseability (especially when compared to the LotR/Hobbit figures). Perry miniatures and such:

(And if these are anything like the previous kits, they'll be about 1/5th of the price of Palace Guard...)

Gildor_Inglorion · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:39 pm

Quote:

And please, don't copy all that 'GW offer the best miniatures' nonsense

I didn't actually write that, did I? I'm well aware of perry miniatures and other suppliers - I actually said I was happy to pay the price for the better sculpted models.

They're alienated because its a massive global corporation. i actually lived near the house where it all started and remember the site being tiny and raided their skips for miscasts in the mid '90s! I dont think they 'owe' me anything by doing exactly what I want them to do. Their success is the exact reason why they're like they are, and the same relentlessly moany people are drawn to it because its a massive brand.

People can either embrace it or not. Whining like an entitled brat isn't going to change anything.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:30 pm

Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

People complain because they care. The games or setting of the games is nice, but people feel alienated by the way GW works. Alternatively, they may not really care themselves, but are concerned that others will go on to play other games because of GW, which reduces the player pool and will eventually kill the games.

And please, don't copy all that 'GW offer the best miniatures' nonsense. When supplied with equally good sculpts, Renedra produces the very same quality. GW have their own facilities because they're big enough to simply save money that way (which of course isn't reflected in their prices, but still). Some of those competitor's products will simply be better too, with many extra options and poseability (especially when compared to the LotR/Hobbit figures). Perry miniatures and such:

(And if these are anything like the previous kits, they'll be about 1/5th of the price of Palace Guard...)

They'd be fantastic for a Game of Thrones wargame.

Creaky · **Joined:** Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:26 pm **Posts:** 424

King Ondoher wrote:

Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

People complain because they care. The games or setting of the games is nice, but people feel alienated by the way GW works. Alternatively, they may not really care themselves, but are concerned that others will go on to play other games because of GW, which reduces the player pool and will eventually kill the games.

And please, don't copy all that 'GW offer the best miniatures' nonsense. When supplied with equally good sculpts, Renedra produces the very same quality. GW have their own facilities because they're big enough to simply save money that way (which of course isn't reflected in their prices, but still). Some of those competitor's products will simply be better too, with many extra options and poseability (especially when compared to the LotR/Hobbit figures). Perry miniatures and such:

(And if these are anything like the previous kits, they'll be about 1/5th of the price of Palace Guard...)

They'd be fantastic for a Game of Thrones wargame.

They are, this chap has done some stunning "book accurate" Stark and Lannister forces: http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=44719.0

These are pretty stunning too: http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=62778.0

Sorry for the Off-Topic. Something something something GW. Something something something Doomed.

kidterminal · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:06 pm

Thanks I haven't seem that before. GW really is doomed.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:17 pm

Apparently GW has a 71% chance of bankruptcy within 2 years.

http://www.macroaxis.com/invest/ratio/GAW.L--Probability_Of_Bankruptcy

Quote:

For stocks, Probability Of Bankruptcy is normalized value of Z-Score. For funds and ETFs it is derived from a multi-factor model developed by Macroaxis.The score is used to predict probability of a firm or a fund going into bankruptcy or experiencing financial distress within next 24 months. Unlike Z-Score, Probability Of Bankruptcy is the value between 0 and 100 indicating the actual probability the firm will be distressed in the next 2 fiscal years.
Games

Probability Of Bankruptcy
=
Normalized

Z-Score
=
71.07 %

Companies or funds with Probability Of Bankruptcy above 90% are generally considered to be high risk with a good chance of bankruptcy in the next 2 years. On the other hand entities with Probability Of Bankruptcy of less than 15% will most likely experience some growth in the next 2 years. Probability Of Bankruptcy is based on Macroaxis own algorithm and can be used by auditors, accountants, money managers, financial advisers, as well as day traders to evaluate unsystematic risk of a stock, fund or ETF.

kidterminal · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:40 pm

That's 2 years sooner than I expected but very possible.

Bilbo · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:59 pm

It would be interesting to see what Beasts of War has to say on the financial report on tomorrow?

kidterminal · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:19 pm

Bilbo wrote:

It would be interesting to see what Beasts of War has to say on the financial report on tomorrow?

Yes it will.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:48 pm

Its up now, though you have to sign up and pay for a subscription to view it.

http://www.beastsofwar.com/

kidterminal · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:01 pm

I don't even listen to them for free they are too long winded and mealymouthed for me.

mertaal · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:48 pm

I'm sorry, but cool as they are, I don't think for a second this

Compares favourably with this:

Or this:

Wyrd are definitely rivalling GW in terms of amazing plastic kits. Nobody else in the wargaming industry is though. Certainly not the Perry Brothers.

GW's "finecast" models are, of course, a totally different story. Don't even get me started on that abomination of a product.

And as I said earlier, as far as quality of sculpt is concerned, many tiny producers have entirely blown GW out of the water. Plastic kits? GW are still way up there.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:13 pm

You're comparing apples to oranges. A kit of armoured infantry based in a real world historical context and therefore restricted by that setting, is not directly comparable to a large highly detailed fantasy monster model, or dynamically posed fantasy models unrestricted to the point that the creators could really go to town on detail and dynamic poses.

The Perry Miniatures kits should be compared to their closest counterparts, which would probably be Warhammer Fantasy Empire Greatswords and the other infantry.

kidterminal · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:20 pm

King Ondoher wrote:

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Yeah he/she is.

Gilcris · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:16 pm

mertaal wrote:

I'm sorry, but cool as they are, I don't think for a second this

Compares favourably with this:

Or this:

Wyrd are definitely rivalling GW in terms of amazing plastic kits. Nobody else in the wargaming industry is though. Certainly not the Perry Brothers.

GW's "finecast" models are, of course, a totally different story. Don't even get me started on that abomination of a product.

And as I said earlier, as far as quality of sculpt is concerned, many tiny producers have entirely blown GW out of the water. Plastic kits? GW are still way up there.

I think you're comparing the degree to which the models are stylized more than the level to which the models are detailed. Yes, the models you chose to compare them to are stylized quite a bit; I don't think they possess any finer details.

As an example, people often laud Privateer Press's miniatures, but all I ever see is overly-rounded, overly-stylized, under-detailed junk. Their humanoid faces still just look like globes/spheres that someone clumsily pressed a sculpting tool into for cheekbones.

I actually support your notion that GW has the best, most-detailed plastics, but better evidence of that are the pristinely detailed faces of dwarves from EFGT (where a specific actor's face has been captured remarkably on an incredibly small canvas), not the "let's just make a model as big and flashy as we can" tendency that GW consistently explores with fantasy/40k.

Sithious · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:03 pm

Regardless of who sculpts better. WE can all agree that GW is one of the top dogs and has the most invested in manufacturing, Probably gets the best prices on resins and plastics and steel based on volume.
So why is the Company that has the capacity to make the best quality mini's for the cheapest prices charging the most and thus losing to competition that should be struggling to keep up with them?
They are obviously making mistakes and following a plan that has been mentioned before of making GW a Ferrari of the industry. I think they expected people to be willing to pay more for something better. They forgot that stores like Walmart are the ones making the most money, selling things for cheaper in larger quantities than the competition. If GW would adopt this idea they would turn this around faster than lightning, cause no one would be able to touch them for a while if they did.

Kirby says he will stay on "if they will have me" so I think they should keep him a year for transition but work him out of the game. I think a younger eager Chairman should look at the history and look specifically at the margins. If they were turning profit in 2004 and prior at $20-$25 per box of 20-24 models per kit.. Then they should be able to duplicate those margins and repeat that. Dropping prices to $30 for 24 models would be a huge move or $20 for these 10 model sets... if they did this they would be affordable to the noobs and experienced alike.

kidterminal · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:39 pm

The current (and when i mean current I mean for the last 12 years) has no understanding of the retail business GW is a retail chain and thats why they're sinking like a stone.

Jamros · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:28 pm

We've bashed GW for their business practices, but even if GW had done everything perfectly, there's no way a miniature wargaming company of their size could remain stable in the age of video gaming.

This current wargaming boom (Kickstarter, Warlord, Corvus Belli, Privateer Press, Mantic, Perry, etc) is largely (not entirely) due to GW fallout in my opinion. And the reason we see all these "alternatives" as so successful is because they're relatively small, which means they're having a much easier time with competition, niches, overhead, etc.

Miniature wargaming is a very involved hobby and offers a lot that video games do not. But it's really hard to justify all the space, money and time spent on miniature wargaming when I could just play Fire Emblem, Total War, or Age of Empires with some friends.

Sacrilege83 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:33 am

Jamros wrote:

even if GW had done everything perfectly, there's no way a miniature wargaming company of their size could remain stable in the age of video gaming.

Now you're really comparing apples and oranges. People still love boardgames, the video game industry hadn't wipe that out completely. Warhammer has been around for decades, it has inspired Warcraft, so I've been told. And table top wargames are more than just games, it's a practice of art... well unless you get you miniatures commissioned. GW in a perfect world wouldn't lose out to video games. The table top hobby loses out to people who don't have the patience, time, money, and/or art skill. Reasons why my friends dropped out of it after a short while of starting up. One is impatient, and the other couldn't paint to save his life.

GW change of CEO

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