I meant that throwing spears could behave as both throwing spears and regular spears. In terms of infantry Rohan's biggest weakness is the lack of spears.

That's a rebranding, not a completely new rulebook. If they release a new $85 rulebook next year, I would expect the only difference would be the name, thescenarios and the profiles, not the rules themselves. Which could then be followed by a sourcebook.

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"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Have to agree with Damian on that. Wargear shapes play-style, and giving them spears turns them into everyone else (but not as good). And maybe injecting a little "reality", having a throwing spear big enough to provide support makes it too big to carry enough of to get infinite throws.

The spear that stuck Grishnahk in the movie was MORE than big enough to support someone with. And it's not like you're going to have more than one throwing axe, yet Gimli has infinite throws.

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"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

An infinite number of throws is preferable to some sort of record keeping exercise for throwing weapons. Sometimes a smooth game mechanic has to win over 'reality'.

That said, there are other ways for the large size of Rohan throwing spears to be taken into account without resorting to the obvious solution of allowing them to support. Roman spears (IIRC, someone with better knowledge please correct me if I'm wrong) were made of a soft metal that would bend, so they'd stick in a shield, taking the shield out of use and bend a bit so they couldn't be thrown back.
Rohan throwing spears could have a rule that if a model is hit by one or more throwing spears and not killed, then for the remainder of the turn his defence is lowered by 1 and he can't use the shielding rule. This would represent a model disentangling himself from the hefty spear that just hit him and stuck in his shield or clothes.

This sort of characterful rule is preferable to giving Rohan the option of using throwing spears as normal spears. In a wargame different armies are defined by their weaknesses as much as their strengths and diluting that detracts from the fun of the game. If I wanted a tight spear block I'd play Gondor (You could take Rohan Royal Guard backed up by WoMT with spears, but that would be so lame and gamey) Rohan is different, it's wilder and more fluid. Rohan needs a little bit more hitting power but that must not compromise the characteristics of that army.

Back to the bland heroes. I don't think there is any reasonable chance of us getting GW to revisit older profiles at the moment. That may change if SBG enjoys a wave of popularity on the back of The Hobbit movies. At least for the next couple of years GW will be paying it more attention. Ultimately the SBG community needs to grow, and to some extent that is down to us as players. I plug this game at my club with my 40K and WHFB mates, but new players are needed. This is such a good system to get into for new players as it scales all the way down to 250-300 points, and some scenarios only have a handful of models. We, as a community of SBG players need to keep that in mind. The EfGT scenarios can be played on a coffee table, for example.

I need to get my EfGT set painted.

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Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

"Normalizing" all the armies is something I dread seeing as well, and am actually disappointed that Dwarves are getting spear options (but at least it's only one list, right?). But as mentioned Rohan's biggest weakness is...well...it's weakness. It lacks the ability to deal damage consistently to the typical Evil armies.

Standard Rohan strength (3) hits a Def 4 or 5 with a 5, and a Def 6 with a 6.

I took a look at the 23 “basic” infantry troops currently available to Evil. My only real definitions of these are that they were infantry and had to come in at or under 10points with shield upgrade (if available). Six of these have a Def 6 and I believe they make up the bulk of “popular” Evil army troops, at least what I have seen (possible exception is I don’t know how many people actually play Black Dragon Warriors): Morannon Orc, Uruk-Hai Warrior, Black Numenorean, Easterling Warrior, Black Dragon Warrior and Gundabad Blackshield. Of those 6 “tough nuts” half have Strength 4 and half are Fight 4 (some overlap w/ the Str4). Of the 17 models still left on the list, 6 have Defense 5.

By comparison Rohan has one troop (Royal Guard) that can make it to Def 6, and except of Helmingas upgrades, I believe they have no Str 4 warriors.

Now I don’t think Humans SHOULD be Strength 4 normally and wouldn’t ask that. But Rohan has no 2-handed weapon upgrades to compensate. I know from experience that I often need to draw on my Elf Blades striking 2H for my Wood Elves to have a reasonable chance of wounding many of the high-defense Evil forces I face. But I can’t do that with Rohan. I’m stuck with the need for 6’s. True, the RoR have an increased chance of getting those 6’s on the charge, but it can be very discouraging to charge in with a number of Riders, win the Fight rolls (not always easy when only your RRG or upgraded Redshileds are F4) roll your dice and still only come up with 5s or less.

Rohan (Cav in general) could be more effective in WotR because unit facings came into account and a cavalry force that got a flank or rear charge was more potent. But that isn’t the case in SBG where there is no facing. If you charge your RoR into a group of Uruk Hai with shields and they all decide to use the shielding rule, there’s a really good chance you are not going to win the Fight rolls and even if you do you are only going to wound a small percentage of them. Then you hope to win Priority or Heroic Move (burning precious Might) away next turn.

Using bows and throwing spears used to be a decent option for Rohan but with the -1 you’re hitting on 5+ and still only at Str 3.

I am not very familiar with the new weapon strike rules, so maybe this is one area where Rohan can benefit?

I guess after all this rambling, what I’m saying is that Rohan continues to need some attention to be a force like portrayed in the books, and even films. Their named Heroes could use a little more flavor, especially Theoden. And their core troops could use a little more punch so that when you do commit your cavalry to a charge you have a more reasonable chance of causing a wound to the basic troops that you typically see on the table.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

They could use punch, or the foot soldiers could just be 1pt cheaper to level with harad?

With the biggest advantage of throwing weapons (being thrown on the charge) now nerfed, I think they could easily go back to 1pt. Either that or exempt them from the -1 rule. I know it helps other armies as well, but it would help Rohan most of all.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts