origins of orcs

generalripphook · **Joined:** Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:02 am **Posts:** 127

I cant for the life of me remember if orcs are elvies corrupted by morgurth or if morgurth just created them himself?

mastermanje · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Morgoth created orc, in order to counter elves, and have his own army. By creating orcs, he got weakened, as it took much of him, the same for trolls, dragons, although Balrogs aren't created by him, but by Illuvitar (although he didn't mean them to become evil)

Ares B · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:29 pm

Even Tolkien himself wasn't quite sure.

mastermanje · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:31 pm

Ares B wrote:

Even Tolkien himself wasn't quite sure.

The idea of only Illuvitar being able to create life, would mean there would be no dwarves! No little beardmen? :sad:

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:57 pm

Tolkien sais that Evil could NEVER create life, so Morgoth did not just create Orcs, he hhad to have corrupted something.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:26 am

The thing about Tolkein is that he started rewriting everything around the time of his death.

SidTheSloth · **Posted:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:30 am

Yay!
Ive finnaly found the right page

The Silmarillion p47:

'...that all those of the Quendi that came into the hands of melkor, ere utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the orcs in envy and mockery of the elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest of foes. For the orcs had life and multipied after the manner of the children of Iluvatar; And nought that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make scince his rebellion...'

I'm pretty sure Melkor also made trolls in the mockery of ents aswell

i hope this helps :-D

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:31 pm

Tolkien later changed that, but it wasn't found out that he did til pretty long after Silmarillion was written.

generalripphook · **Joined:** Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:02 am **Posts:** 127

Thank you so.mich i love you all!

origins of orcs

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