The Southern Fiefdoms

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:45 pm

Hello all!

I've been getting back into the hobby recently. My cousin who I used to game with regularly has suggested recreating a pretty monumental battle for the Pelennor at some point next year. So I've been reading pretty much every source available to try and work out exactly who was present (in the books). It struck me whilst I've dug up this amount of information, I should share it with the community. As we'll be compiling our army lists, buying and converting the necessary models and developing the character rules it makes sense publishing it in supplement format. So to achieve a fair and balanced selection of rules, we'd love to hear some suggestions. Happy to play-test them in a smaller scale re-creation.

The history of Gondor, it's fiefdoms and the towns and settlements in those fiefs have been dealt with and we will be creating some original scenarios and play-testing them (battle reports and photos will follow). We've also got a few suppliers lists whittled down for options for these models although selecting which ones will need the stats. As there are only two brains at work here, we don't want to miss something out, so would very much appreciate your feedback.

Okay so here is the list of characters mentioned. I have their descriptions (thanks to tuckborough) but feel free to add something if you feel it will improve the gaming experience/theme etc.

Minas Tirith
Hurin Warden of the Keys
Chief of the Guard (remember Beregond reported himself to this character after the BotP was over)

Fiefdoms
Lord Duinhir of Morthond - Archers of Morthond
Duilin of Morthond
Derufin of Morthond
Dervorin of Ringlo Vale - Warriors of Ringlo Vale
Hirluin the Fair of Pinnath Gelin - Infantry and Riders (they rode out remember)
Golasgil of Anfalas - Royal Warriors of Langstrand - Hunters of Anfalas
fishermen from Mouths of the Anduin

Reinforcements
Commander of Pelargir - Harbour Master - Warden of Pelargir
Captain of Lebennin - Warrior of Lebennin

Happy to allow models to carry banners, horns etc. Heroes are in bold. We are quite happy with Games Workshops stats for Angbor and Forlong, the clansmen and the axemen and so we want fun rules but which fit alongside those fiefdoms. I've heard there are rules for the Blackroot archers and Duinhir but I can't find them, anyone got a link?

Really interested in hearing special rules for these characters, something which reflects their brief descriptions,

From tuckborough
The defenders of Minas Tirith included at least three companies of the Tower Guard, as well as the survivors of the garrison of Osgiliath. Their numbers were strengthened by nearly 3,000 soldiers from the southern fiefdoms of Gondor, who had arrived on March 9. Among these were 200 Men of Lossarnach led by Forlong, 300 Men of the Ringlo Vale led by Dervorin, 500 archers from the Blackroot Vale led by Duinhir and his sons Duilin and Derufin, a company of ill-equipped Men from Anfalas led by Golasgil, a few hillmen from Lamedon, a hundred or so fishermen from the Mouths of the Anduin, 300 Men from the Green Hills led by Hirluin, and a company of Knights of Dol Amroth along with 700 men-at-arms led by Prince Imrahil.

Thanks a lot in advance, looking forward to hearing some ideas :-D

Ps. if this is in the wrong section, please don't delete as I haven't made a copy of this message.

EDIT: has anyone ever owned one of these? would be intereste to know what the content is like http://www.amazon.com/Southern-Gondor-M ... 1558062564

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:17 pm

Made a start with highlighting the Southern Realm of Gondor and added the Introductory paragraph.

http://modelworkshop.wetpaint.com/page/ ... oming+soon!

I am currently compiling the details for each fiefdom, these will be dealt with separately much like a separate army list but all under the GW Fiefdom LOME rules and will include

- Description (with map)
- Heroes and Warriors profiles
- Model suggestions (with links) and any conversions
- Painting Guide
- Suggested army list(s)

The whole point in doing this is to improve the Siege of Minas Tirth/Battle of the Pelennor Fields scenario, which my cousin is writing up at the moment. We have looked back through the multiple GW sourcebooks, and read WD battle reports etc. The scenario will have only a few rules but the army lists will be broader allowing for more army choice and theme. There will be less emphasis on individual plot points and more scope for a generic battle on a huge scale. We want our Fiefdom heroes to have a few special rules so we would love to hear ideas.

I have the Commander of Pelargir model already, I'll post a picture later on at somepoint. To give you some inspiration, he is has light armour beneath a long cloak with regiment style markings on either side, carries a sword and a walking stick.. any guesses which GW LOTR model it might be yet?

He will have the ability to 'parry' (shield) with his walking stick and sword. He will be similar to Cirdan although he isn't an elf. As a descendant of the Faithful he does have Numenorian blood so he could have increased will and perhaps a special rule for charging terror causing enemies???

Ideas and feedback welcome

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:01 pm

Profile

Commander of Pelargir Points value: 100
F/S/D/A/W/C/M/W/F
5/4/5/1/2/5/2/4/2

Wargear
The Commander of Pelargir wears leather armour (armour) and carries an ancient long sword (hand weapon) and a walking stick.

Special Rules
The Faithful. The men of Pelargir are descended from the courageous Numenoreans. Such is their determination the Commander of Pelargir, Harbour Masters and Wardens of Pelargir all receive a +1 bonus to their courage when broken.

Master Tactician. As the ranking officer in the City of Pelargir, the Commanders knowledge and experience is second to none. More so his ability to judge the movements of enemy forces is a trait unrivalled in Southern Gondor. If the Commander of Pelargir is within 6”/14cm of an enemy Hero calling a Heroic Move he may immediately call an action of the same type without expending a point of Might.

Chief Warden. The Commander is an experienced leader however he is not as young as he once was. He carries a walking stick which can be used along with his sword to shield during the Fight phase. Follow the normal rules for 'shielding'.

Feedback on the points value, special rules much appreciated. Any other ideas for special rules?

aelfwine · **Joined:** Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:23 am **Posts:** 508

Very nice conversion and so forth.

I have that MERP supplement "Southern Gondor": I can scan you things like the maps. Better yet, I'll send you a scan of the Decipher RPG maps, which are based on the MERP map, and have the bonus of being drawn by the official LOTR movie map maker.

Also, because I'm a nuisance, I'm pretty certain that the southern Gondorian areas are not fiefdoms, but provinces. The difference is entirely technical, save for one crucial detail: Tolkien was not a fan of the post Norman Conquest organisation of England, which transformed the anglo-saxon flavoured proto-feudalism into formal French style fiefs. So its likely that each "province" would have a different relationship with the crown of Gondor. Dol Amroth would be a principality, Anfalas a province and so on.

I think I have the official Blackroot Vale states from WD somewhere too.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:09 am

The Blackroot Vale archers stats are in the Japanese WD pdf section. I know it's in Japanese, so you most likely can't read it. They aren't worth it (in their current state), they're rangers of gondor with lower fight and courage, with a lame special rule. If they had the same courage, maybe, but not with the official rules.

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:44 pm

aelfwine - Hi there! Thanks for the reply. That would be fantastic if you could send me scans of the maps

I'm interested in developing the details for all the regions too so if there are any interesting passages which you think I could use to flesh out the Blackroot Vale/Pelargir/Pinnath Gelin/Anfalas etc I would be in your debt sah!

Regarding the Fiefdoms/provinces, it's the first I've heard of it. I know Games Workshop tend to invent things for the interest of the game rather than being historically accurate, but sites like Tuckborough and ... Wikipedia (i know lol) refer to them as Fiefs. I've actually used the word 'province' in my descriptions, however only to describe the areas within Fiefdoms from which men came to Gondors aid, for example the green hills of Pinnath Gelin is a province in the region of Anfalas. Golasgil is from the Langstrand, but is the Lord of Anfalas. Both areas reside within Anfalas which is a Fiefdom of Gondor.

Is this not correct? I have Dol Amroth down as a principality btw. It's all very confusing

Draugluin - Thanks for letting me know, that is what I'm after! I tried searching for it (google translator is a god-send) but I couldn't find it in the WD or LOTR section of the site. I think I'll order a copy of WD366 from Ebay. It might be possible to work with their lower fight/courage rules by creating a special rule for Duinhir's sons :wink:

I have a few ideas. The men of Blackroot Vale were probably not as brave as the average Ranger of Gondor nor as skilled in combat, the Blackroot is many miles north of Ithilien so those archers probably saw very little action, especially hand-to-hand. I don't like the Duinhir model, so i'll look into conversion opportunities for him as well as the two sons Duilin and Derufin.

I'd really like to know what you guys think about these regions, whether they were wealthy, well trained, agile, brave, terrifying etc.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:02 pm

Their special rule lets makes them slightly more effective against monsters, so them having lower courage doesn't make sense when combined with their rule.

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:32 pm

Hi all! I've added the scenario we've been working on in PDF format on my blog. Unfortunately I couldn't attach it here but it's really easy to get to. Please follow the link below, scroll down to attachments and click on 'The Siege of Minas Tirith Scenario. Would appreciate any feedback. Please note, i've yet to add the images of the Minas Tirith/Pelennor Board or the participants, as I'm still working through profiles, thanks

The Siege of Minas Tirith Scenario
http://modelworkshop.wetpaint.com/page/ ... oming+soon!

Attachment:

SOMTS snapshot.jpg

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

Very nice idea :yay:

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:16 pm

Thankyou

Just thought, I can copy the direct link location so here it is

The Siege of Minas Tirith Scenario
http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/pw6V ... u-Vg452464

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:55 pm

I've been working my way through each characters Special Rules lately, progress has been rather slow. Here is the list of heroes minus the Commander of Pelargir. Sneak peak of the Blackroot heroes special rules...

Duilin & Derufin of Morthond
- Go for the Eyes!
- Expert Shot. Duilin & Derufin are allowed to shoot their bows twice in the Shoot phase instead of once, providing they don't move.
- Lead by Example. The sons of Duinhir are brave men, an inspiration to the men they command and fight alongside. Any Blackroot Vale model within 3" of the sons will automatically pass any courage tests.

Any thoughts on these guys below?

Hurin Warden of the Keys
Dervorin of the Ringlo Vale
Hirluin the Fair of Pinnath Gelin
Golasgil of Anfalas
Harbour Master (of Pelargir)
Captain of Lebennin

We decided to scrap the Chief of the Guard idea. The fishermen/hunters of the Ethir will be very basic but with throwing spears/weapons. The men of the Ringlo will be pretty basic but with armour and shields. The men of Anfalas will be similar to those from the Ethir "hunters and herdsmen and men of little villages"scantilly equipped", although the warriors of Golasgils household will be pretty tough. The gallant green clad men of Pinnath Gelin will be well armoured. Lamedon, Morthond, Dol Amroth and Lossarnach have been covered. So I'm looking for special rules ideas for heroes or the Fief and/or profile ideas. I think considering how many evil warriors now have two attacks, it's only fair men from the Household of Golasgil have 2 attacks.

We've got two terrain projects on the go at the moment, and will feature a number of what if suggestions for the 'Grand Scenario'. Oh and simple modelling suggestions (although most of the models we've sourced are from different retailers but they fit in don't worry!) :-D

FireKnife · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:14 am

Not sure if this has been mentioned but have you seen 'The Beacons are Lit!'?

It is an old WD article (wish they would produce the damn thing again) that showed rules for a selection of Fiefdom troops (some later went on to be actual models like Lossarnach and Lamedon) with official rules and some rather good conversions. There was a similar one for Harad and the Far East areas but i forget the name of it now.

'FireKnife'

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:11 pm

Hi FireKnife! Yes that article isn't available on the GW website anymore, but I have read the WD copy with the rules. Has served as a great inspiration, the conversions were nice in some cases, but the special rules were lacking. I'll post my versions soon and welcome recommendations/changes etc

Someone on another forum has done similar work, based on the 'The Beacons are Lit' article
http://www.setbb.com/cheeseweb/viewtopi ... =cheeseweb

Highlordell · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:03 pm

Hey, nice to see the Fiefdoms re-emerge, quite an interesting topic, if i say so myself.

I made some Blackroot Vale profiles quite some time ago, shortly before the profiles were released (which are a total failiure compared to the other fiefdom troops, I might add).

Here is the link, there's 3 profiles on there, but i'll repeat them here, along with some other I had lying around.

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php ... 93&start=0

Duinhir, Hero of Pelennor: 100 points

F: 4/3+
S: 4
D: 6
A: 2
W: 2
C: 5

M:3
W:1
F:1

Wargear: Heavy armour, Longbow, Spear

Expert Shot: (see Haldir in the main rules)

Inspiring Marksman: If Duinhir calls a Heroic Shoot, roll a dice, on a 4+, no might is expended.

Duilin and Derufin: 25 Points each (Can be fielded seperately)

F:4/3+
S:4
D:6
A:1
W:1
C:5

Might: 1
Will: 1
Fate: 1

Wargear: Heavy armour, Longbow, and Hand Weapon.

Special Rules: Expert Shot

Archer of Blackroot Vale: 8 Points

F: 3/3+
S:3
D:4
A:1
W:1
C:4

Wargear: Longbow, Armour, hand weapon.

Guardian of Erech: 10 points

F:4/-
S:3
D:5
A:1
W:1
C:4

Wargear: Heavy armour, Spear

Shield: 1 point

Special Rules: Iron Heart: The Guardians have seen far worse on their guard duty than anything witnessed on the battlefield. They never have to test for charging a Terrifying Enemy and all rolls for half the force being destroyed recieve a +1 bonus.

Scout: 15 Points

F:5/3+
S:3
D:3
A:1
W:1
C:4

Wargear: Longbow

Special Rules:

Masters of Stealth: Scouts are used to hiding amost the terrain and picking out key targets, staying perfectly camoflaged all the while. When laying down, a Scout counts as wearing an Elven Cloak. Additionally, a Scout can fire a bow whilst lying down.

Snipers: Scouts excel at taking out important figures using pinpoint and deadly accuracy. If a Scout wounds a target through bowfire, roll another a dice, if a 6 is rolled, another wound is inflicted on the target.
_________

Sorry for the long post, feel free to use/tweak them if you want, obviously my stats are different to GW's.

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:41 pm

Hey Highlordell, cheers for the reply

Thanks for posting those up, first i've seen of them! I've got similar rules for Duinhirs sons, how weird!

I don't see anything wrong with the other rules, they all fit within the theme that these were lesser regions of Gondor. Games Workshop went a bit crazy giving every fiefdom warrior a Fight value of 4 :shock:

That said I'm only really creating profiles for the people GW haven't covered yet, Blackroot Vale archers should only have a F3 like you have suggested :wink:

I'd be interested to hear what you think about the profiles once I've posted them up. They are nearly all complete, no pictures yet though.

Highlordell · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:44 pm

No problem. I agree that most of the Fiefdom troops are overpowered, it seems they made the Blackroot vale archers underpowered if you look at the WD stats.

The additional profiles I've made for made-up units might be helpful as well if you want to expand your list a bit.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:32 pm

If the BRVA had at least the same courage and maybe Elven Bows, they'd be a decent replacement for RoG.

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:38 pm

Drauglin - I posted my special rules for Duilin & Derufin earlier in the thread. One of their special rules influences the courage problem you mentioned.

Special Rules
- Go for the Eyes! When shooting Duilin & Derufin can re-roll failed to wound rolls against Trolls, Fellbeasts, Mumakil, the Balrog, Dragons, Cave Drakes Giants, the Spider Queen, Shelob and Gulavhar the Terror of Arnor.
- Expert Shot. Duilin & Derufin are allowed to shoot their bows twice in the Shoot phase instead of once, providing they don't move.
- Lead by Example. The sons of Duinhir are brave men, an inspiration to the warriors they command and fight alongside. Any Blackroot Vale model within 3" of either of the sons will automatically pass any courage tests.

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Hey all, has been a busy a few weeks, there's the Winter Painting Competition and plenty of activity in the WIP thread that have kept my eyes glued to the screen rather than progress with the Southern Fiefdoms project. But I can update today, with news that the profiles are complete, I'm currently awaiting a reply from my cousin to get his approval before posting them up. Took me a while to do all the fancy graphics although no pictures of models yet.

I'd like to throw some ideas about, specifically what models should be used to represent each Warrior Profile. I will source Hero miniatures after. They are based on the description in the profiles and i've put some thought into what might look the part. So without further ado..

Defenders of Minas Tirith
Conquest Games sell Norman Knights (12pp) for £18 and more at a discount. These could easily be used as Knights of Pinnath Gelin or perhaps Lebennin. The unarmoured ones look like suitable Riders of Rohan also.

Warriors of the Ringlo Vale & Dervorin
I think I will use the GW Cirion miniature and a number of Crusader Miniatures with Minas Tirith shields (and possibly helmets) to represent these guys)

Warrior of Pinnath Gelin & Hirluin
Metal Spearmen of Numenor body + Citadel Guard Head

Langstrand Guard & Golasgil
Fountain Court Guard conversions, sword and shield addition + trim helmet details
Golasgil is currently the Arvedui model with Isildurs head, it looks pretty cool!

Hunters of Anfalas and Fisher-folk of the Ethir
Crusader Miniatures (pretty basic attire with throwing spears) - have to narrow down a number of choices

Reinforcements
The reinforcements who travel with the Grey Company up the Anduin and join the Battle of the Pelennor.

Warden of Pelargir
Citadel Guard body + Metal Numenorean head

Guard of Lebennin
???

Interested to hear any other concepts/ideas or perhaps changes. These were off the top of my head as I haven't got the plans to hand. I have a load of shields cast ready for use with either the Crusader miniatures or kitting out other models. Feedback will be much appreciated ooh and I'll get those profiles up ASAP!

EDIT: I'll update this post with supplier links and pics in the next week or two

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:49 pm

Golasgil & 5 Langstrand Guards

Foutain Court Guard without the fancy wing details. The helms have had their wings chopped off (although keeping them for later :wink:

). Head swap for Golasgil using Isildir. He has a nicely detailed helm, which sets him apart from the group. All this means I have a spare Isildur body, Arvedui head, some spears and 10 helmets details!

Does the Arvedui conversion fit in with the rest of 'the Household'?

I'm now flirting with the idea of converting Warriors of Lebennin from the plastic Gondor sprues.

The Southern Fiefdoms

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