GW IP issue - and an exclusive OR mini

Captain Ingold · **Posted:** Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:31 pm

Corsair wrote:

King Elessar the Uniter wrote:

tidoco wrote:

I think an OR figure would be cool though I wouldn't want to see the site jumped for it

I totally agree.

Ditto.

James

I wholly support this motion.

Jamros · **Posted:** Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:41 pm

Townspersons miniatures were highly requested back at TLA, plus townsfolk are probably neutral enough to keep you out of trouble. Thing is, unless you do a complete set, I'm not sure villagers are dynamic enough to be a special site exclusive mini.

But yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either that GW would close down a site that is promoting their goods. I'll never understand GW's business ideals, or their need to restrict everything relating to their intellectual property so heavily. :roll:

BilboOfTheWhiteTower · **Posted:** Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:40 pm

That is why I suggested something generic like some kind of ranger or halfling...neither of these are exclusive to LotR or GW intellectual property so we would be completely safe to have something like that sculpted. However trying to produce a minor hero like Hurin of the Keys or Elfhelm or some such we would get nailed for that.

Dagorlad · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:39 am

We need to avoid the distinctive armour and iconography of the Elves, Isengarders, Rohirrim and Gondorians. Also anything with the Eye of Mordor, the White Hand of Saruman or even the established Tolkien-esque runic symbols of the Dwarves cannot be touched.

The model will be a single human-scale figure that will be generic enough to avoid all of the obvious pitfalls and yet meets a gap in the range of minis. There are practical limitations to the amount of metal per mini too - capes, cloaks and hoods all use up more metal and so cost considerably more (I am learning a lot about the casting process).

Haldir_Strikes · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:15 am

In that case, perhaps it would be wise to go along the lines of researching any 'Wanderers' i.e. rogue characters who are known for travelling, as then it's easier to implement the unarmoured design into character development.

This could include rangers, wandering elves, and even wizards (i.e. Alatar and Pallando), as they are all suitably rustic and be equipped with very generic equipment.

Therefore, if we were to attempt to narrow down any desired factions, these could be the following:

-Rohan
-The Elves (i.e. Grey Havens, Lothlorien, Rivendell)
-Arnor (Dunedain, Rangers of the North)
-The Maiar (i.e. The Blue Wizards)
-Gonder (Rangers?)

I don't think it would be possible to do evil factions as they all have an established design as set by NL and therefore any attempts to try and branch off and create smoething new will just seem awkward.

Although, you could try and make a unique version of the Half Troll - but again, only a handful of people would see the use in the mini - it has to be something which will grab the desire of lots of people, or could possibly be used in various armies (?), or finally, used as a collecters/display piece.

Captain Ingold · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:28 am

You could have some of the Breelanders made - they could double as Dunlendings, and could just be called "Peasants."

Alternatively you could get some Haradrim made under the title "Arabs".

Haldir_Strikes · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:48 am

Captain Ingold wrote:

You could have some of the Breelanders made - they could double as Dunlendings, and could just be called "Peasants."

Alternatively you could get some Haradrim made under the title "Arabs".

The problem with doing that though is that you need to produce a set of miniatures - an OR exclusive therefore needs to be aimed towards a hero as opposed to stock-standard troops.

Corsair · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:11 pm

A 'Barbarian leader'?

thats generic...

I do agree with the fact we can't go down the Evil models path. Try a Woodsman or something?

James

King Elessar the Uniter · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:20 pm

Haldir_Strikes wrote:

In that case, perhaps it would be wise to go along the lines of researching any 'Wanderers' i.e. rogue characters who are known for travelling

Yeah, that sounds good!

And if you made it with common clothes of Rohan, Rangers and Elves etc. (cape, leather armour, long hair but no beard, a hood etc.) more people might find a use for it in a number of different armies. It could be Aragorn one day, a lone Elf the next, a Rohirrim scout another day...

Hope that makes sense!

Jamros · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:36 pm

You know what would be really cool is if you got permission from Independent Online Cinema and Actor's At Work to make miniatures based on The Hunt for Gollum and Born of Hope. But...I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to sell them, as neither films had permission from Tolkien Estate, New Line, or Saul Zaentz... :roll:

Phantom_Lord · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:44 pm

Haldir_Strikes wrote:

In that case, perhaps it would be wise to go along the lines of researching any 'Wanderers' i.e. rogue characters who are known for travelling, as then it's easier to implement the unarmoured design into character development.

how about one of the members of Thorins company? (maybe even Thorin himself). it would be a nice model for any dwarf army.

Captain Ingold · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Jamros wrote:

it would be illegal to sell them, as neither films had permission from Tolkien Estate, New Line, or Saul Zaentz... :roll:

That's why they're free to watch films, otherwise they could be sued for profiting of someone else's property. Hence the need to ensure that nothing is sold by OR that references the books or films.

Longbottom Leaf · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:07 pm

Phantom_Lord wrote:

how about one of the members of Thorins company? (maybe even Thorin himself). it would be a nice model for any dwarf army.

That would be illegal as well, as it infringes on the intellectual property of the Tolkein Estate. I do like John's ideas of wanderers, that seems like it would be a good idea and generic enough as well. James woodsmen idea sounds nice as well.

Captain Ingold · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:49 pm

Longbottom Leaf wrote:

Phantom_Lord wrote:

how about one of the members of Thorins company? (maybe even Thorin himself). it would be a nice model for any dwarf army.

That would be illegal as well, as it infringes on the intellectual property of the Tolkein Estate.

Not if he's just called Dwarf leader. :wink:

Longbottom Leaf wrote:

I do like John's ideas of wanderers, that seems like it would be a good idea and generic enough as well. James woodsmen idea sounds nice as well.

I do like those too. I'd like to see those, actually.

Dagorlad · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:49 am

I changed the title of the thread since we ended up talking about this exclusive mini idea more than the IP issue, but the two topics are still closely related and comment on each one is welcome.

I have contacted the sculptor again and he assures me he is still interested in doing this but was busy with the demands of his own company. So, he tells me he's going to have another crack at it (his first green was not too successful apparently).

Haldir_Strikes · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:54 am

Sounds good Alan.

Are we able to find out who this sculptor is? Any way we can see his design brief?

Additionally are we able to help in any conceptualisation? After all it is hard to sculpt an original mini if you have nothing to go off!

I just finished uni today, so I have about 4 or so months holiday

I could knock up some sketches if you need?

Cheers

Dorthonion · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:33 pm

I would go for a townsfolk figure - pseudo medieval attire, and even GW cannot claim copyright on that. Or runes - the Vikings and others were using them long ago - the Professor merely adapted them to his needs.

typhoon2 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:32 pm

With regard to the murky waters of copyright, I understand that if copyright is not defended then it lapses, hence GW's apparently harsh hounding of possible challengers. I don't think it's petty or personal. Rather they have to be very strict or lose their lucrative brands, and this is especially true with LOTR stuff which is licensed.

On the topic of a One Ring figure, then I'm in favour of a generic peasant/ militiaman/civilian/tramp/refugee/artilleryman/carter/whatever. It fills so many niches for the scenario-player - tournament players will ignore it, but with no official rules there's nothing for them anyway. It also crosses into other genres, such as 25/28mm Ancients or other fantasy systems.

An alternative to the (more appealing) warrior or hero figure, might be a piece of terrain. A generic statue is the logical choice (a cloaked figure, like the piece in the LOTR terrain box), but otherwise something like a free-standing battle standard might be sufficiently flexible for most folk.

Dagorlad · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:08 pm

It's not copyright that lapses, but a trademark - a subtle difference. We can use some parts of a copyrighted work for editorial commentary, product reviews, satirical parody, and a few other purposes, but we cannot use trademarks in our site content without acknowledging them.

There have been a spate of Cease and Desist letters sent to the owners of numerous websites lately, the most recent being Board Game Geek. In a bizarre move, GW have demanded that all content relating to GW games be removed from the site.

Their actions appear brutal and clumsy and will only harm sales of their products by alienating their player base. Personally, if I can find a good alternative to Chaos Black spray paint, I will not buy their products any more.

Corsair · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:34 pm

quite strange, thats like shooting yourself in the foot...

As said, we are basically advertising for them - and they couldn't give a rat's posterior.

regards

James

GW IP issue - and an exclusive OR mini

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