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| Mordor Variation. http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=23227 |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mordor Variation. |
My regular opponent recently made a comment in another thread saying that I always play the same army. Our games are usually around 1000 to 1500 points andI usually play an infantry based army, orcs, morranons and uruk allies and my heroes are usually a wraith or two and Gothmog. I have plenty of other pieces such as trolls, wargs etc but it seem that they can never do as good a job as a mass mob of orcs spread across the board. Trolls cost a lot and dont do that much damage, wargs are pretty tough but again dont seem to deal out enough damage, and a fell beast just seems too pricey and vulnerable for what they do. Compare those to other units such as orcs with 2hw or a hero such as Gothmog and it just seems foolish not to go with those. Anybody have any suggestions on how to mix things up a bit but still have the power to do some damage? |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
I would recommend you play at 2,000pts, because that way you can have a more reliable core and some specials. Though it uses more specials than you would like, below is an example of what I mean: Epic Heroes; Khamul, the Betrayer, the Dwimmerlaik, Gothmog, the Mouth of Sauron Common; 3 Morannon Orc Warbands (4 coys each) w/ shields, Mordor Orc Warband (6 coys) w/ 2-handers, 2 Mordor Orc Warbands (2 coys each) w/ bows, Mordor Uruk-hai Warband (5 coys) w/ 2-handers Rare; 2 Mordor Troll Chieftains, 2 Morgul Knight Regiments (3 coys each), Black Guard of Barad-dur (3 coys) |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Not a bad set up,but it still leaves my opponent facing the usual wraiths and Gothmog. Plus a 2000 point game will allow me to play trolls but my opponent will either just pile more womt on the tabe or a couple of bolt throwers. Not sure if that army list has enough fodder Gothmog. Iv never realy paid much attention to mouth of sauron. Why do you think he is good to use? |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Bolt Throwers are underpowered anyway, but moe WoMT not so much. though the cost to buy them now may be a litttle prohibitive, though the idea is to use a more balanced army, though keeping a yusual core to compete with those who don't like it fair or themed. If you wanted it more competive, swap the Mordor Troll Chieftains for Isengard Troll Captains, and get a 4th formation of Morannon Orcs, and you could also swap either the Mordor Uruks or Black Guard too. As for the Mouth of Sauron, most people don't pay much attention to him, as he is balanced and worth about 100pts, whereas for 25pts more you can get somehing worth 50 or 100pts more. He is useful still, but not overpowered, and I like him because he is more friendly. If you wanted to, you could drop a coy of Mordor or Morannon Orcs and swap him for the KoU, but that is boring. I also have a slightly different (and even friendlier) version of the list that puts the Dwimmerlaik on a Fell Beast. You could try 1 if you want, but you may already know why its not usually a good idea. |
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| Author: | Gildor Inglorion [ Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
If you want to get more troop variety in at 1000/1500 points, I would recommend a few small formations of warg riders. Don't use them for frontal charges, but a 3 company formation of basic warg riders is cheap enough to be expendable but can be devastating in the flank. Morgul Knights are also strong units that are a break from the Morannon/Wraith spam found in so many armies. Morgul Stalkers might not be quite as strong, but they would be easy to proxy with orcs and are a lot of fun to play with if you utilize their ability to Ambush well. So maybe add in something along those lines and take out some orcs. As Gothmog said, you could also use (still powerful) heroes like the Mouth of Sauron rather than the outrageously underpriced Wraiths. Even just switching up the wraiths you use (ie not always Betrayer or Khamul) could make your battles more interesting for both you and your opponent. Personally I think Mordor Troll Chieftains are rubbish for their points, but I field a standard Troll in my Mordor armies. Maybe not as strong as 4 companies of Morannons, but cool for theme and potentially devastating if used well (especially with Gothmog's Overlord). |
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| Author: | Telchar [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Stormcrow wrote: Plus a 2000 point game will allow me to play trolls but my opponent will either just pile more womt on the tabe or a couple of bolt throwers. Tell him that if he complains about you always bringing the same list, and you try to vary a bit, he could at least do you the kindness to build a list of similar power. |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Thanks guys some great thoughts there. Its difficult to come up with a decent variation when so many pieces seem the obvious choice but I have a few ideas on what i can try different next time we play. Unforunatly i can't post them on here as my enemies will see!!!!!! |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Gildor Inglorion wrote: Personally I think Mordor Troll Chieftains are rubbish for their points, but I field a standard Troll in my Mordor armies. I think standard Trolls are dreadful, the only Trolls you should take are Heroes. Though Isengard Troll Captains are better value than Mordor Troll Chieftains, and Buhrdur is better value than an Isengard Troll Captain. |
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| Author: | Gildor Inglorion [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Quote: I think standard Trolls are dreadful, the only Trolls you should take are Heroes. Though Isengard Troll Captains are better value than Mordor Troll Chieftains, and Buhrdur is better value than an Isengard Troll Captain. I agree.. I never said standard Trolls were great. Buhrdur and the Isengard Captain are both really strong, but the Mordor Chieftain is far overpriced IMO. Better to shell out 100 pts in an 1000 pt game for a standard troll that'll be fun to play with and add to the theme than to spend double that on a unit that isn't *that* much more effective. This isn't advice on a uber-effective tournament army... personally I just think a troll is a cool addition to a smallish Mordor force, and a chieftain might eat up too many points at that level. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Ah, but I don't like playing at 1,000pts, the Wraiths are too powerful at that level imo. I prefer 2,000pts, in which a Troll Chieftain or two, though ridiculously overcosted, doesn't take too much away IMO, as long as you have a plan in mind, and a few overpowered things as well. I don't tend to recommend any monsters except for Burhdur or Battering Rams at 1,000pts. |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
I have tried using trolls in the past as i have two mordor trolls and a cheiften but they do seem very pricey for what you get. Whenever iv used them they only seem to manage one semi decent attack before they get taken down.At first they were a good distraction for my opponent but as soon as he realised that htk is'nt actually that htk he just stopped worrying about them. |
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| Author: | Telchar [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: Ah, but I don't like playing at 1,000pts, the Wraiths are too powerful at that level imo. I prefer 2,000pts, in which a Troll Chieftain or two, though ridiculously overcosted, doesn't take too much away IMO, as long as you have a plan in mind, and a few overpowered things as well. I don't tend to recommend any monsters except for Burhdur or Battering Rams at 1,000pts. What? A battering ram? What on earth would anyone want with that? |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
I have never faced (or played alongside for that matter) and Isengard army in WotR that hasn't used one. They're really cheap monsters, and more pts effecrtive than an Isengard Troll, and taking them doesn't hamper your army size at 1,000pts. Though on 2 occasions, I've seen people kill their own battering ram accidentally. |
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| Author: | Telchar [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: I have never faced (or played alongside for that matter) and Isengard army in WotR that hasn't used one. They're really cheap monsters, and more pts effecrtive than an Isengard Troll, and taking them doesn't hamper your army size at 1,000pts. Though on 2 occasions, I've seen people kill their own battering ram accidentally. But their stats are even lower then their price. I think your local Isengard players must be quite exceptional, especially since I've never seen (in the flesh or on the net) an Isengard army that did. |
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| Author: | Gildor Inglorion [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Quote: They're really cheap monsters, and more pts effecrtive than an Isengard Troll, and taking them doesn't hamper your army size at 1,000pts. Gotta agree with Telchar here, Isengard Battering Rams are pretty awful (unless you're playing some sort of siege scenario). The whole point of a monster is high strength attacks, the number of which is boosted by a high Fight value. A battering ram will be getting 3, maybe 4 attacks at Strength 4, and with Defence 5 it's not going to be around for long. Plus (as far as I can tell from pictures, I don't actually own one), the battering ram has an even larger base than a troll, making it more difficult to maneuver and get flank/rear charges. IMO the only time it would be effective would be for rooting out units holed up in defensive terrain, but dunlending horsemen can do the same job just as well while being more versatile. I'm curious as to why your opponents/allies always field them... is it more psychological? And how do they kill their own battering rams? |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
The wole point of a battering ram is not high strength of fight, it is used primarily for flank protection only, well to deter opponants from exposing their flank. It's base is the same size as an Isengard Troll's base, I rarely see them used against terraign, the primary purpose is just to appear monsterish, but be cheap, they don't generally have much of a psychological impact, more of the reverse, for trapping. But I have rarerly, if ever, seen battering rams have earned their pts, but that the same nearly with every monster except Buhrdur, Gulavhar, Kings Champions and (occasionally) Mumakil. As for how people kill their own battering rams, there are two main ways; blowing it up with sappers, and using Saruman's (or other Ruin caster's) magic to do te Earthquake-spell. Although I have seen one destroy itself due to a poor fallback roll after a defeat. |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
Hmmm, Im sorry Gothmog but i'm not convinced. I dont think ill be in any rush to play any rams. But anyway back to the topic of variation. I usually take allies with me, most often uruks with crossbows but i want a change. Any ideas on what could complement a mordor army?Is better to take troops as allies or a hero such as lurtz or saruman prehaps. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
You can use Lurtz and Durburz to represent Shagrat and Gorbag as Epic Heroes. Stormcrow wrote: Hmmm, Im sorry Gothmog but i'm not convinced. I dont think ill be in any rush to play any rams. I wasn't saying that they are awesome, only that they are common (around here anway), useful, and why. At least that's what I as aiming for. |
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| Author: | smaul [ Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
I like using the Black Guard and Morgul Knights in every battle, even at 1250 points, I also like to ally in Buhdur from Angmar, or use the Troll Chieftan. if I have more points like 1500ish Nothing wrong with playing the infantry army though if that is what you like. |
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| Author: | Leonardis [ Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mordor Variation. |
I love Mordor, but also love building themed armies - I am working on a Citith Ungul army headed by Shelob, Shagrat tower guard, the morgul rats loads of orcs and mordor uruks, I can add in siege bows, trolls or wraiths as needed! I say, pick a theme and build your army 
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