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Extremly hard to kill ?
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Author:  IM A ENT!!! [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Extremly hard to kill ?
So how does this work

A dragon has the rule, with defence 8 and 2 res, so you would need 2 hits just for 1 roll.......then what

thanks
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
IM A ENT!!! wrote:
with defence 8 and 2 res, so you would need 2 hits just for 1 roll.......then what

Then you add the number of wound counters the dragon already has to the die roll and then you compare the result to the table and do what it says.

What exactly is unclear?
Author:  IM A ENT!!! [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Ohk. So to get the "slain" result you would need an amount of wound counters before hand other wise it is impossible to kill him as the slain result is 15 and you cant get a 15 on a d6 unlesss you get wound counters is that right?
Author:  daersalon [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Yes. With 10 Wound Counters if you roll a 5 or a 6 you will get a 15 or a 16, which kills the beast. If the Monster has less than 9 wound counters a *single* roll will not kill him.
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Unless you want to spend a bunch of might. The rules specify that for charge distance and the various Hard to Kill tables (and ONLY those 2 things) you can spend might to increase a die roll beyond "6".
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Also remember the power of a natural 6.

On H2K it means a dead critter.

On the others it means to apply the result of the roll and then roll again. So if it's VH2K then you score a Wound counter and can roll again, applying the +1 from the counter they just got.

Against a Balrog I managed to roll two 6's in a row early on. The first scored a Wound counter and a re-roll. That counter bumped my re-roll up enough to apply 2 new Wound counters. So my extra roll after my second 6 (which came out more average) got the benefit of all the existing Wound Counters.
Author:  IM A ENT!!! [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Quote:
So if it's VH2K then you score a Wound counter and can roll again, applying the +1 from the counter they just got.


I thought that Very hard to kill table means you just give it a minus 1 for the table?

anyway thanks for the help everyone
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Yes...VH2K does mean -1.

My example was that if you roll a 6 on VH2K, you treat it as a 5 instead. This means one wound counter.
Since you rolled a natural 6 (not made it a 6 via Might or such) then you get to roll again.
On your follow-up roll, you apply the +1 for the wound counter acquired in the previous roll.
Author:  Bairchoro [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
If you are interested, I coded up a simulator to run multiple iterations to determine the number of "blows" actually needed to land a wound against an Extremely hard to kill model. I came up with the following:

KEY:
Number of Existing Counters (EC)
% of Killing the Model Outright (%K)
% of Getting +0 Additional Counters (%0)
% of Getting +1 Additional Counters (%1)
% of Getting +2 Additional Counters (%2)
% of Getting +3 Additional Counters (%3)
% of Getting +4 Additional Counters (%4)
% of Getting +5 Additional Counters (%5)
% of Getting +6 Additional Counters (%6)

Probability of Results

Quote:
EC _ _ %K _ _ _ _ %0 _ _ _ _ %1_ _ _ _ %2 _ _ _ _ %3 _ _ _ %4 _ _ _ _ %5 _ _ _ _ %6 _ _
00 _ 000.00% _ 050.00% _ 041.67% _ 008.33% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
01 _ 000.00% _ 033.33% _ 052.78% _ 011.11% _ 002.78% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
02 _ 000.00% _ 016.67% _ 066.67% _ 000.00% _ 011.11% _ 005.56% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
03 _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 066.67% _ 016.67% _ 008.33% _ 008.33% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
04 _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 050.00% _ 033.33% _ 005.56% _ 008.33% _ 002.78% _ 000.00%
05 _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 033.33% _ 050.00% _ 002.78% _ 008.33% _ 005.56% _ 000.00%
06 _ 002.78% _ 000.00% _ 016.67% _ 066.67% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 005.56% _ 008.33%
07 _ 005.56% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 066.67% _ 016.67% _ 000.00% _ 002.78% _ 008.33%
08 _ 008.33% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 050.00% _ 033.33% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 008.33%
09 _ 016.67% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 033.33% _ 050.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
10 _ 033.33% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 016.67% _ 050.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
11 _ 050.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 050.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
12 _ 066.67% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 033.33% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
13 _ 083.33% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 016.67% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
14 _ 100.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
15 _ 100.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%
16 _ 100.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00% _ 000.00%


After many runs of the dice rolls, I came up with an Average number of Hits as being 9.5, with the most probable outcome being 10 Hits to kill.

The simulator did provide a couple "interesting" results where it killed the monster in 3 Hits and another where it killed the monster in 17 Hits:

Three Hit Example:
It rolled a 6/3 (giving 2 counters on the First Hit), followed by a 6/5 (giving 4 counters on the Second Hit), followed by a 6/6 (producing the 15 required to kill the monster)! That was pretty interesting.

Seventeen Hit Example:
It rolled a 2 (giving 0 counters on the First Hit), followed by a 3 (giving 0 counters on the Second Hit), follwed by another 3 (giving 0 counters on the Third Hit), then another 3 (giving 0 counters on the Fourth Hit) ... there was this enormous string of 1's, 2's and 3's ... which made each Hit "invalid").
Author:  Draugluin [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
You would need to double those as the EH2K monsters have 2 resiliance. So an average of 20 hits.
Author:  Bairchoro [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
You are right Drauguin, by "hits" I meant rolls on the EH2K Table :)
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Beowulf03809 wrote:
Yes...VH2K does mean -1.

My example was that if you roll a 6 on VH2K, you treat it as a 5 instead. This means one wound counter.
Since you rolled a natural 6 (not made it a 6 via Might or such) then you get to roll again.
On your follow-up roll, you apply the +1 for the wound counter acquired in the previous roll.


The natural 6 rule only works for EH2K, not VH2K (like your example) or H2K.
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
GtW is right, the natural "6" rule is an addendum to all the EHtK monsters.
Author:  IM A ENT!!! [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Beowulf03809 wrote:
Yes...VH2K does mean -1.

My example was that if you roll a 6 on VH2K, you treat it as a 5 instead. This means one wound counter.
Since you rolled a natural 6 (not made it a 6 via Might or such) then you get to roll again.
On your follow-up roll, you apply the +1 for the wound counter acquired in the previous roll.


The natural 6 rule only works for EH2K, not VH2K (like your example) or H2K.


Yer thats what confused me cos Im pretty confident with VH2K AND H2K tables just the other give me trouble.


Anyways once again gents you have provided me with answers thankyou all.

ps; feel free to keep the post freash with any info related that hasnt yet been said
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
True. Bad example on that. H2K/VH2K doesn't get the reroll on 6. Only EH2K/XH2K.

Second example from an actual game was more appropriate.
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
I think my group has misunderstood the rolling on the EHTK table. Let's say my monster has 4 wound markers and my opponent rolls a 6, he then re-rolls the dice and rolls a 5. That's 15 and dead!!! Is that correct?
Author:  Draugluin [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
You add the 4 wounds to the 6, which is a 10 (so that adds 2 wounds I think) for a totol of 6 wounds, then you re-roll the 6 and get a 5. 5+6 is 11, so you add another 2 (I think, don't have the book on me) wounds for a total of 8 wounds.
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Well draugluin if your right then I have been playing it wrong
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
He is right.

The extra D6 you get for rolling a natural 6 is not added to the first roll, it is an additional roll on the table.
Author:  Jazlotus [ Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extremly hard to kill ?
Well I never, glad I browsed through this as my group has played this wrong as well, we played that if you rolled a 6 you immediately roll again and if you roll say a 5 you add them together, so 11 and look at the chart, I wondered why it was so easy to kill the so called EHTK Monsters haha. All makes sense now.

Doc Death, u will not defeat me as easy next time!!!
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