I don't think the Knight of Umbar can copy ES, he would onlly be able to steal their basse fight value
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| Epic Heroes and Special Rules http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=21854 |
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
As the game progresses, an epic hero can find himself in a company that has one or more special rules that he himself does not have. In this situation, the epic hero gains any special rules the company benefits from. So let's say my hero doesn't have Epic Strike, but someone else in my company does have it and calls Epic Strike. Now my company benefits by a fight of 10. However now by hero is called out in a Heroic Duel. Does my Hero who didn't have Epic Strike still benefit from this fight of 10? |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Hi NotLegolasJustTipsy - this comes up a LOT: Epic Strike does not raise the fight value of the entire company. It raises the fight value of the single hero that calls it, only. In one situation (when attacking in melee), this benefits the rest of the company. So in your case - no another hero would not get Epic Strike. However, the opponent might be able to give the benefit of Epic strike to a number of heroes in a single coy, if they have brought along the Knight of Umbar. Likewise, Erkenbrand makes a pretty handy dueler when he is in an Epic Charging coy led by Theoden. Both of those situations work because the rules say they give their fight value to the whole coy. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
I don't think the Knight of Umbar can copy ES, he would onlly be able to steal their basse fight value
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Does the Knight of Umbar steal just an opponents fight or strength? Or could I steal the strength from my troll? |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Hi GothmogtheWerewolf, what part of the two rules (the Knight's and ES) leads you to argue that? @ NLJT The rule says "enemy" not "any". Cheers |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Nothing about the rule of ES, just the Knights rule, basically, the Dark Marshal, if he calls ES, he can't give someone ES, so it makes sense if the Knight can't steal it either. |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
The Wraith rules (and Gothmog, for that matter) have nothing to do with sense. Restrictions are for lesser beings. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Xelee wrote: The Wraith rules (and Gothmog, for that matter) have nothing to do with sense. Restrictions are for lesser beings. That sounds exactly like GW, OTT wraiths and gothmog. anyway i'm sure the KoU isn't as bad a Khamu, Betrayer and Gothmog, (assuming he can't steal ES, which i don't think he can) |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Well on the one hand he is worse than I said - since he confers the ability on his formation, not company. On the other hand, he only uses another formation's fight as it is at the start of the fight phase. So Epic strike is out. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Xelee wrote: Well on the one hand he is worse than I said - since he confers the ability on his formation, not company. On the other hand, he only uses another formation's fight as it is at the start of the fight phase. So Epic strike is out. Oh yes, the whole formation, that's why noone puts treebeard or a stone giant next to him. |
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
The KoU looks quite decent, you could jump jump him about into different formations and use there strength. No bac |
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Meant to say not bad!!! Seem to get that caught up with playing Khamul and the Betrayer that you forget the other Wraiths at times |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
NotLegolasJustTipsy wrote: Meant to say not bad!!! Seem to get that caught up with playing Khamul and the Betrayer that you forget the other Wraiths at times Not everyone does, he is undoubtedly the 3rd most powerful wraith and many people use (and abuse) him too. |
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Go on then Mr Gothmog, tell me how you rate the 9 Wraiths from 1st to last and why? Well if you want to that is 
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Ok then, one or two of them are a little more ambiguous, but I would say this: 1st Khamul (obvious reasons, he can turn a serious defeat into an overwhelming victory) 2nd The Betrayer (seriousy deadly, but no protection hence 2 and not 1) 3rd The Knight of Umbar (again powerful, but more circumstancial than KE and BT as it relies on enemies) 4th The Dwimmerlaik (not overwhelming on its own, abuse when used in cpnjuction with Gothmog, can be powerful) 5th The Tainted (helps with spells,, spirits, cavalry and bezerkers, he's easier to describe as useful rather tghan powerful 6th The Dark Marshal (some people put him above the Tainted, because his inspiring leader is useful, and he can make MKs common, however there's plenty of cheap high courage hers, fight value is circumstansual, and there are plenty of commons) 7th The Shadow Lord (definately not very powerful, useful against crossbows etc, but archery in general isnt too powerful, if it was, he'd be much higher, good at protecting low defence high cost troops though) 8th The Witch-king (again, cos of his high cost many people put him last, hes rules aren't the best and he's costs a lot more, however 3 might alone makes him okish, and his rule is useful to magic snipers) 9th The Undying (neither part of his rules is partiicularly good, of the cheaper wraiths, he is the most balanced pts wies, as his rules are also veery circumstantial, a lot of good armies go without magic, so itt often is completely pointless) |
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
You know what, you are so helpful on this site Gothmog, it's brill 
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| Author: | Xelee [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
I think the Witch-King just has to go flat last. +75pts to get two more points of might but remain R2 doesn't cut it, sadly. He goes down just as fast as any Wraith to a proper dueler (ie ES + ED + extra might). You've noted the Dark Marshall and I think he is in general underrated by people but his usefulness depends on how many Epics you have overall. No question he is a bit redundant in the 'traditional Mordor list'. All the rest are 125pt Mastery 3 casters with one Epic Strike (so probably have one duel in them), give their unit terror and courage 5 and have the combination of Dismay and Darkness. Any one of the 125pt versions is an incredibly good choice and the only reason the one 200pt version isn't a good deal is because you really should take any of the 125pt versions instead. But yes - there is a reason I put the Knight in my handy training graphic lol |
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
[quote="Xelee"]You've noted the Dark Marshall and I think he is in general underrated by people but his usefulness depends on how many Epics you have overall. No question he is a bit redundant in the 'traditional Mordor list'. What do you mean when you say that his usefulness depends on how many epics you have overall? |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
Because they all also have courage 5, so if you have a lot of them, he isn't necessary |
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| Author: | NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Epic Heroes and Special Rules |
But surely you don't just use him for his courage? |
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