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 Post subject: Best way to defeat large formations
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:49 pm 
Elven Warrior
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hey all, recently I played a 2500 point game against a gondor force. (I play elves)
The main problem was that he threw a couple of large formations at me, and they just kept hitting me.

So my question is, what is the best way to defeat them, of course an elven way :-D
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 Post subject: Re: Best way to defeat large formations
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:36 am 
Kinsman
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Heroic combats would seem to be the go here. Use your superior movement to get into his flanks or rear, charge in and call the heroic combat. You'll take casualties in the first combat, but if they are disordered in the second combat you'll barely notice.

Also the Inner Glory Fortune is your friend in all games.
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 Post subject: Re: Best way to defeat large formations
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:41 am 
Wayfarer
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I know the feeling being a pointy ear player my self.

Here's a couple of tricks I use to beat large formations (6+ companies).
Firstly if you don't have Cohort get them they are by far the best unit in the Elven Arsenal. 3 Might, Fight 7 captain is awesome and shields on elves is so overpowered.

Have your Cohort lure/bait a unit into combat with them. The object here is to draw forward one of their units into combat with you. You want to be taking them on one unit at a time. If you have spells, use ones like Immobilize and Entangle on units nearby to cut their charge range down, and Call winds to push them back. Remember every inch counts and if they spend might to resist the spells even better.

Once they charge your Cohort (hopefully over extending them selfs) charge into their flanks with units like Mirkwood sentinels or Galadhrim Knights, if your allying in I guarantee 2 eagles will make a mess of anything. Once your into their flank drop an Inner Glory if you feel you need it. Best use if their are heroes such as Boromir or Faramir sitting in the unit.

When combat rolls around wait to see who wins the roll of for who spends the first Might point. If you go first Quick duel out Boromir or someone like that with one of your Captains remember he's at Fight 0 now so even a generic fight 7 elf captain can deal with him.
If they go first they'll most likely spend a point to bring Boromir upto fight 10 first, then just spend a point to Heroic Fight before he can duel. Fight 10 isn't much use it you carn't duel.(Remember although Epic actions can be called out of sequence they are still called like heroic actions meaning the must take it in turns when calling actions.)

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 Post subject: Re: Best way to defeat large formations
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:34 am 
Elven Warrior
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I am not a terribly experienced elf player, but a mate of mine is skillful with them.
He uses their mobility and spells to keep enemy at bay, uses a tag-team of Galadriel and Radagast which constantly drains your courage so you fail terror tests to charge them and uses Radagasts epic tranquility to keep that formation safe, and Galadriels free might top-up to keep him recharged.
Glorfindel romps around kicking butt too. Add to that a bit of fire power and strong cohorts, and you have a very tough nut to crack if played correctly..
I often muse why folks here bemoan the elves... they kick my butt repeatedly!

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 Post subject: Re: Best way to defeat large formations
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:43 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
I often muse why folks here bemoan the elves... they kick my butt repeatedly!

There are counters to Elven 'Death Stars' and even Epic Tranquility is not a perfect safety mechanism, though it is pretty good.

The biggest difficulty Elves face is all the very good units other armies get for not very many points at all. On top of that, different lists have their tools: My Gondor list will auto-pass terror and keep putting in the heroic charges with a couple of units (since spells can be an issue) in until it wins the 50/50 diceroll - then bank on taking Radagast in the subsequent duel. My Angmar list will use seige bows and attack spells of their own. My Dunlending list will use xbows and Saruman. I'm sure most people will have a plan for that kind of thing with whatever lists they use and of course... any list with a mumak will walk over the top :) The Elves are bemoaned, because their opponents get to do that, and still have so many more bodies as well.

That isn't so helpful for the OP though. So: Yes take Cohort, an expensive but useful unit; yes pay attention to your hero combos and go through the list and pick out the options that are the best bang for buck and then think through how to combine or stack them. For example: even one of the lowly Twins can become pretty fearsome if the likes of Galadriel is constantly recharging him or using Epic Shot all the time might seem prohibitively expensive in terms of might, but Elves have ways around that, and so on. You have cheap casters, cheap duelers, cheap might batteries and cheap Epic Shot heroes. So your solid units are bases, from which you can throw out spells and assorted other forms of harm.

@Tackitis, I am not so sure about your interpretation of the ES timing there. Epic actions don't always go in the queue like heroic actions (though Epic Tranquility is worded as one that goes off at the start of the phase, so is queues AFAIK). Instead, they trigger at different times. ES looks like one a hero can just use before their fight. At least, that's the way I saw it handled (in a league FAQ by Hellfury from the forums) when I started playing, and that is always how I seem to see it handled. Fortunately for Elves, they could be throwing these out in multiples each turn and then just recharging the heroes afterward.

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 Post subject: Re: Best way to defeat large formations
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:19 am 
Elven Warrior
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hey guys just had a question

last time i played, my opponent had a formation of 6 companies of Rangers of Gondor with Radagast, Madril and Damrod in it, their shooting attacks, he said, were all like they were in the front company, there was no supporting fire, so it was about 60 attacks!!!! They just cut down my elves like wheat.

was he right, or was he pulling my leg.
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 Post subject: Re: Best way to defeat large formations
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:10 am 
Elven Warrior
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Unless he was in a single line, or in a particularly high capacity (it would have to be at least 10!) piece of defensible terrain, yes, he was 'pulling your leg'.

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