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Strange water courses http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25831 |
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Author: | MeatBoy1994 [ Wed May 01, 2013 1:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Shouldn't the Watcher's lake empty eventually, as the lake is dammed and the aqueduct is constantly flowing water? |
Author: | Celevue [ Wed May 01, 2013 2:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Well, there's the stream at the northern edge of the lake, which, apparently, is the Sirannon flowing into the now-flooded valley. Whatever flows out via the aqueduct is replenished by the stream. It's just the placement of the aqueduct too high up which bothers me... if there were a dam at the western valley rim, logically the aqueduct should be below it. Stream pours water into the lake, it spills over the dam and into the aqueduct. Break the dam, and the lake is drained... |
Author: | imrail [ Wed May 01, 2013 5:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Didn't the water come from the Misty Mountains? |
Author: | Oldman Willow [ Wed May 01, 2013 8:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Quote: I’m struggling with two areas of the Middle-Earth with running water, as depicted by the Fellowship movie, where the water seems to flow in a rather mysterious way. The first is the Bywater mill, which the movie shows as an overshot mill I noticed the overshot?undershot issue with the Bywater Mill when I started planning to build the Mill model. I did not notice the Viaduct because I had not planned to make one. I am going to place the mill at the edge of the table. I don't think most people will even notice. Quote: Quote: Well, there's the stream at the northern edge of the lake, which, apparently, is the Sirannon flowing into the now-flooded valley. Whatever flows out via the aqueduct is replenished by the stream. It's just the placement of the aqueduct too high up which bothers me... if there were a dam at the western valley rim, logically the aqueduct should be below it. Stream pours water into the lake, it spills over the dam and into the aqueduct. Break the dam, and the lake is drained. I checked the Atlas of Middle Earth. The gate was originally 30 feet above the river bed. If the damn was broken the Pool would drain to the level of the riverbed. I assume the original level of the aqueduct. The pool seems to be about 1500 feet wide at the stairs and the falls. It is not clear how the pool is damned. I am not sure how much attention PJ paid to the map. The reference in AME refers to page 22 Pictures by J.R.R.Tolkien . I unfortunately do not own that book. I am looking forward to see what you decide to do. |
Author: | Oldman Willow [ Thu May 02, 2013 8:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Quote: The picture by JRRT himself is somewhat inconclusive; below is the relevant bit of the drawing: Thanks! I have not seen this photo before. Quote: There may or may not be a dam, but if so, then the cut across which the dam is built is very narrow indeed. If there is a dam, then the normal river level would be the top of the second waterfall. My solution most likely will be to place the aqueduct roughly at this level, and leave a cleft into the valley rim. I think PJ didn't think this fully through... From memory, I can not find it, The Watcher some how created the pool. Could the watcher have plugged up the for aqueduct to create the pool? If so the plug would be under the water level. The Movie mill on the other hand looks nothing like Tolkien's drawings. I have considered building both Mills. http://www.lotrscenerybuilder.org/hobbi ... ct_def.php The drawing from the Lotrscenerybuilder page of the movie set mill pond is the best evidence that the set maker did not think any one would notice. This is pure speculation on my part but in the LOTR movie the Mill set may not have even had a back side. In the center of a diorama lay out the model will need to depict some kind of water course for an overshot. I have not worked it out either! I noticed from your other WIP the model of Durin's Causeway. I built one from Lotrscenerybuilder plan. I want to replace my model with a new one built with Hirst Art blocks.Can you post more photos of your model? I look forward to seeing your WIP and hearing about future plans.! Quote: My idea is to set the aqueduct much lower, and have a gap in the circling rocks. What do you think? I agree with you. I was confused about the location of the aqueduct. |
Author: | Celevue [ Thu May 02, 2013 9:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Tolkien's Moria drawing was actually the reason I hunted down a copy of the Pictures book via Amazon. Not that it helped much! I posted two Moria board pics to my WIP thread, do take a look and let me know if you need more at this point. Otherwise, I will post more in any case once our campaign gets that far (the fifth scenario from now should take place on the causeway). |
Author: | Oldman Willow [ Thu May 02, 2013 11:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Quote: take a look and let me know if you need more at this point. Thanks! |
Author: | andymeechan [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Regarding the Mill, could it be that there is a weir downriver of the bridge? Or does that smack of too industrialised for Hobbits, perhaps? |
Author: | Celevue [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Strange water courses |
Tolkien's own picture of the Bywater Mill had a small waterfall where the mill wheel was; the mill was of the undershot type, unlike the one in the movie. Weir is perhaps too elaborate; more likely, there would be a waterfall upstream, and the hobbits have dug a mill race diverting water from above the waterfall to the overshot at the mill. That is probably how I will do it - just haven't done the final layout of the terrain yet. Of course, the mill race needs to run under the road leading to the bridge... |
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