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GW does WWII
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=16805		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Dagorlad [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  GW does WWII
I just read in the latest Wargames Illustrated magazine that GW is looking to produce a WWII game, and demonstrated it at an event in Warhammer World in October. I believe it is still under development at the moment but is expected to be released in 2010.

Looks to be a 15mm - 20mm skirmish game from Warhammer Historical in much the same light as their recent Great War production. I have no idea what existing ruleset it is based on or if it is completely new, but it sounds very interesting. According to WI, the mechanics of the game are not based on Warhammer (yay). Presumably, they were referring to WHFB since the concept of Panzergrenadiers in movement trays seems a bit ludicrous to me. But I am hoping they are basing it more on LOTR SBG than on WH40K.

I have a number of rulesets for WWII action on my bookshelf, but none of them grab my attention much. I am hoping this one will.
Author:  Anduril Blade of Kings [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds good. Thanks for posting this, Alan :)
Author:  Dorthonion [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
I sense that GW are hoping to compete with Flames of War and Command Decision... and yes, movement trays would be damnably silly in WW2.

Then the thought strikes me: most 15mm scale vehicles are resin or metal and fairly expansive. Would GW be looking at plastics for some of this? Might still be expensive... :roll:
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sounds quite interesting, thanks for posting it Alan! 8)
Author:  jebbo [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Very interested in this, thank you very much for posting Alan
Author:  Erunion [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think I would be interested in a WWII wargame, however it is interesting that GW is looking to expand their range, given that they already have several games that are not currently supported at all (Specialist Games).
Author:  Dagorlad [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think GW would be interested in competing with Flames of War directly. This looks to be a Warhammer Historical rulebook, in much the same way as Legends of the Old West, the Great War, and Warhammer Ancient Battles.

They just write the rules but don't produce any miniatures for it, expecting their customers to use figures from other manufacturers instead. Given the vast array of 20mm models (1/72nd scale) out there, GW would have a snowflake's chance of taking a piece of that market.

Generally, these rulesets are highly playable and extremely well put together, and they often have a number of follow-up expansions. This first book appears to be set in the British sector of Normandy during D-Day and immediately afterwards. Rumour has it that there will be expansions covering other forces and even different theatres of war - presumably North Africa, Russia, and/or the Pacific.

I'm looking forward to it at least.
Author:  Dagorlad [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh and there some great 20mm hard plastic WWII models from Valiant Miniatures (http://www.valiantminiatures.com/). I have a sprue of them that came on the front of Wargames Illustrated early in the year - I was wondering what I was going to do with them. Now I know!
Author:  samoht [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
This sounds awesome.

I can't wait for more details!
Author:  valpas [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Better start buying pan scourers to build all those Normandy hedges. :-)

I recently visited a store with a huge selection of Airfix stuff and was amazed that they still use the exact poses for the troops as they did when I was a child. The Germans and the British commandos looked just like they used to. This might be a good excuse to dive into some nostalgia.

Newspaper would write: "A group of 30-40 year old men in black trenchcoats drove kids away from the sandbox in a local park. When parents tried to approach them, they mumbled incomprehensibly and threatened the parents with dice and toy soldiers. Police suspects some evil cult activity."

Seriously, skirmish-scale WWII would be interesting.

-- Pasi
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is getting better and better! WWII wargame and playable in 1/72 scale... :-D
Author:  Dagorlad [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you want some rules for WWII wargaming, there are loads of different games available already.

Purely historical:
"I Ain't Been Shot Mum"
"Disposable Heroes and Coffins for Seven Brothers"
"Rules of Engagement"
"Crossfire"
"Rapid Fire"

Pulp Action (but the weirdness can be ignored)
"AE-WWII"
"Secrets of the Third Reich"
".45 Adventures"

and of course

"Flames of War" by Battlefront, which is probably the most professionally produced of the bunch.

One of the things that impresses me the most about GW is the quality of their product, both in terms of playability and in the production values of their printed materials. I own copies of most of the rules I listed above, and only Flames of War and AE-WWII approach the benchmark that Games Workshop has set with their layout and typography.

Flames of War is primarily a battalion-level game with large amounts of figures and vehicles and even on-board artillery and air support. RoE and SotR are aimed at company-level games, while the others are (as far as I know) platoon-level skirmish games.


I am so excited about this idea that I have volunteered my services as a playtester or proofreader for GW. (update: they knocked me back today, oh well)
Author:  typhoon2 [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Flames of War has huge popularity not least because it's apparently written by a former GW-employee and uses exactly the same style of gameplay and presentation that GW use - simplicity, speed, competitive armies, etc. Unfortunately this also includes the flaws, such as over-simplicity, limited realism and so on. I've played a number of WW2 rules sets and FoW is very much one of the worst.

20mm skirmish seems an unusual choice of genre. There is a growing popularity in 28mm skirmish, where the individual figures can more easily be customised. 20mm tends to be the 'one tank = one squadron, ten figures = one company' style these days (Rapid Fire et al), while larger actions stick to 1/300/6mm or 1/200/9-10mm.

It seems strange that they will be devoting all that effort into a product that will only be paper-based (future supplements, such as the aforementioned Western Desert, etc.). Historical gamers are unlikely to pay the premium prices for trees and hills that GW charge, so it seems a bit of a dead-end to me. Unless they have some secret plans to release more generic terrain items, such as streams that double as rivers for Epic, or swamp sections that have no fixed scale?
Author:  Dagorlad [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have a look here: http://www.warhammer-historical.com/

I consider Warhammer Historical as the creative outlet for GW games developers who are stymied by the corporate mentality at Lenton. Rule books are all they produce.
Author:  Corsair [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
well i can't say i am uninterested. But i am trying to support 3 parts of the GW hobby. Its hard atm. THe prices have to be very competetive here for me to be interested. This is GW here though =/

James
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Dagorlad wrote:
One of the things that impresses me the most about GW is the quality of their product, both in terms of playability and in the production values of their printed materials. I own copies of most of the rules I listed above, and only Flames of War and AE-WWII approach the benchmark that Games Workshop has set with their layout and typography.


Aye, that's why I'm more interested in this rule-set than the others already made. GW indeed has it's flaws but overall they're pretty good. :)
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