Popular house rules?

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

My wife are relatively new to SBG but like many new folks we are enthusiastic, perhaps at times too enthusiastic for some.

We do not have many games in yet but we have watched quite a few on YouTube. We are not part of a gaming group and our local GW shop does not have any significant Middle Earth SBG Community Support. So House rules come quite naturally to us. We love the work of Shaun Wymer on his Battles in Wilderland project.

A few things have stood out with us in our limited experience but maybe we are missing something.

Archery seems underwhelming in smaller skirmishes, especially the limited range. We were disappointed in the beginner scenarios in the Pelennor Fields box so decided to try a Battle Companies campaign to learn the game. We are both much more into role playing and narrative play.

My understanding is that there was volley fire but it was removed from the latest edition of the game. We are planning on reintroducing it to our games but 10 archers seems like a lot to use what is really just plunging fire. What is the general consensus on volley fire in SBG?

My wife is a big Rohan fan... so when we got War in Rohan and saw the legion specific rule on throwing spears being used as normal spears to support we both thought it only natural to extend that beyond just that legion. Perhaps 2 points for throwing spears could go to 3 for this but really I think 2 points is already high enough. With 2 points, 2 functions. What are your thoughts on it?

Whilst we do not yet have the Scouring of the Shire book, I understand Hobbits get traps in that book. Again that seems like something that would be better made more widely available. Your thoughts?

Battle Companies specific we thought that perhaps spending a turn searching a body would allow for looting of war gear. Giving up a full turn might be too much time but the payoff could be quite high. Your thoughts?

As for war gear, drums are drums but a company standard is not a banner and a rallying horn is not a war horn. Is that intentional? Why are drums different?

And we thought maybe objective marker items could be loot to retain, specifically consumable war gear to help maintain balance. Thoughts?

Beyond our initial thoughts, what house rules do you use? Are any house rules particularly common?

Our goal is to create our own vision of Arda and gaming in Middle Earth. We have a blog if you are interested in checking out our progress. Since we are working on something of a budget there are ideas we explore on cost saving measures, conversions and proxy models. Perhaps all my computer game modding has left me unable to enjoy a fully vanilla game....

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/

zkajo · **Joined:** Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:11 pm **Posts:** 28

Sounds like narrative game is the one for you. There are plenty of scenarios which have custom rules, and make for an interesting game. Once you've played a few you can select the rules you liked the most and use them in your main games.

Personally I play competitive, so I stick to vanilla. However, saying that, I love some of the rules introduced by narratives.

Look here: https://www.dchobbitleague.com/best-of- ... dwarf.html

Some of the old profiles found in WD_Old_profiles are really sweet with cool rules.

Volley fire used to be far too deadly in the old editions, and archery is fine as it is. It's a threat, but not a game-breaker. Remember that every Rohan rider has a bow, and Rohan usually plays as an all-mounted force.

As for Rohan's lack of support spears... it's for balance purposes. They have access to throwing stuff already, and Theoden's Riders are one of the strongest LLs in the game.

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

Thanks for the link, I overlooked that page when I reviewed DC Hobbit League in my research. Lots of good info on that website but so much seems out of date, that is why I feel like we are late to the party. Similarly the traffic on here seems reduced from what it was a few years back. Having quit Facebook last year it can be a challenge to find folks active in forums.

Spears can not be used by mounted troops to provide support in general can they?

ja33 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:02 pm

Do not despair my friend, while you may be late to the party, the party has in reality just begun once again ! SBG is in the midst of a full renaissance, and the future is very bright.

Look at it this way - the original LOTR SBG is akin to Tolkien's 1st Age... Hobbit SBG fits as the 2nd Age... and now we have Middle Earth SBG, which can be looked at as the 3rd Age. Do not long for the old days, as current days are pretty darn good.

The game itself is vibrant, there are dedicated hobby & gaming groups all over the world playing games and holding tournaments on a regular basis, the various facebook sites are bustling on a daily basis, and best of all, Games Workshop has re-committed to the game in a BIG way over the last couple years. Just in the last two years, all of these Hard Cover books have been released;

Middle Earth SBG Rules Manual
Armies of the Lord of the Rings
Armies of the Hobbit
Battle Companies
Gondor at War
Scouring of the Shire
Rohan at War
Matched Play Rulebook

And if you're looking for additional resources and reading material, here you go...A plethora of Middle Earth SBG Rules, FAQs, designer notes, etc. can all be found here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faq ... attle-game

Lastly, as for your rules related questions, I'd give a general answer in that all rules related to who can use what weapons, and game play, and faction based special rules are tied in a big bow under GW's Rule set and in keeping balance in the game. I don't work for GW or know anyone that does, but I have read and heard from many sources that the Middle Earth team spends a huge amount of time play testing new rules and faction rules to ensure balance, and allow for all players to play a game with any faction and not be at a competitive disadvantage against any other faction.

Of course you are free to come up with your own house rules as you see fit, but my own advice would be to follow the main rules as closely as possible - mainly because that will give you the opportunity to play against other players who use those main rules, and will give you the chance to attend tournaments and play fun, competitive games against a slew of opponents, all playing under the same understood rules.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the site and to the game

zkajo · **Joined:** Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:11 pm **Posts:** 28

If you're looking for a very active community, you can find one on facebook. Look for "Great British Hobbit League". There are a number of league groups, but this one covers the UK as a whole and is very, very popular.

Popular groups:
Lord of the Rings Miniatures RoCK! Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Great British Hobbit League
Middle-earth SBG Narrative Players

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

Thank you for replying! I will admit I feel a bit isolated in the hobby but that is down largely to my own decisions and circumstances.

It is great to see GW throwing more support to SBG but it is still a poor cousin to 40K and AOS. I keep hoping the Amazon Tolkien project will repair the damage Jackson’s Hobbit did to the enthusiasm of the fan base and encourage companies to provide cool products to a voracious fan base like Jackson’s Lord of the Rings did.

Back in the day I was pretty active with 40k... ie the 90’s. Whilst not heavily engaged online I spent many hours gaming with folks in GW stores, at various different independent game shops and the homes of friends. I remember the vitality and richness of this community play, although I never got involved with tournaments as I dislike the animosity I all too often found truly competitive play could bring out in people.

But circumstances are different for me now.

I am a Yank living in a rural German village with virtually no SBG community although there is something of a 40k and AOS community at the GW store in the city closest to us. There is something of a language barrier as well which does not help.

And I left Facebook over a year ago. Saying good bye to some of my favorite hobby groups on Facebook, including an excellent one on wargaming in Middle Earth, was not easy but I am strongly opposed to the near monopoly Facebook has in online community communications.

I appreciate the time and effort made to direct me to Facebook groups but sadly that just is not an option for me.

Hence why I am here on this forum. My gaming is focused directly on world building and narrative game play with my wife. Maybe in the future my son will show an interest. But odds are when my painting back log catches up I will be doing a lot of solo play.

zkajo · **Joined:** Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:11 pm **Posts:** 28

That's fair enough. I'm not a fan of FB but I'm unwilling to give up these groups

They literally keep me there!

I know that Germany has quite a large SBG community, but it does depend on where you live. Sadly, I don't know much about it.

I'd consider making a fake account just to access hobby groups, but of course, you do you!

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

I would say my biggest inspiration is Battles in Wilderland by Shaun Wymer.

https://www.dchobbitleague.com/fan-made ... ments.html

Both my wife and I love what he created but it has left us hungry for more like it.

Mapper · **Posted:** Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:36 pm

Regarding house rules, they are exactly that! Whatever you and your wife sees fit to play the game as you would like is what the rules are. I disagree with how Battle Companies promotes so easily into characters required new models so I have made adjustments there to satisfy myself.

Dwarves4thewin! · **Joined:** Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:59 pm **Posts:** 91

@Mapper: would you share them? I'm playing battle companies and thinking about some houserules myself.
We already made 1 'improved' healing herbs, for 1 point more (playtesting if that's fair, or if it shoudl cost 2 influence points more) you can use it after the injury rolls instead of before. Or maybe the normal healing herbs has to go to 2 points and the improved will cost 4.

Mapper · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:25 pm

To be honest, my rules probably don't fit most peoples ideas of Battle Companies. Using Gondor as an example, if a warrior advances to a citadel guard, in "real" life he would be reassigned to the citadel guard. In my world, if the warrior gains the experience he might take on the characteristics of the guard, but I won't replace the model. I try to blend how it would work in small units vs gaming. The idea that a unit of eight would have a captain and two sergeants is ludicrous to me. I feel that promotions happen too easy, still working out if it needs two die rolls or what.

I like the idea of buying supplies, I like that a wandering figure can join (ranger or dwarf) and several other ideas in the Battle Companies book.

Currently my company is in the scenario that they were separated from the main group during a battle and are trying to make their way back. I'm trying to tie several scenarios together in a logical manner that will improve my company incrementally but still be a challenge.

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

Whilst I may not agree with or use every house rule I read I find it fascinating to see how people personalize their game. Much like modding computer games. I loved Fallout 4, with over 1000 hours on it, but as good as it was vanilla it was oh so much better modded.

I am not convinced that playtested balancing was always the deciding factor on units for example but rather what minis were sculpted and available. Haradrim not having shields. Black Numenoreans not having spears.

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

Continuing my research on old SBG materials I have come across a couple of interesting ideas that I am curious to hear everyone’s opinions on since they were probably discussed in the past.

1) #44 of the DeAgostini Battle Games in Middle Earth magazines, page 4, talks of Grand strategy and strategy points. This seems an interesting idea but underdeveloped with only 3 options per side. Was this ever expanded anywhere? What do you think of the idea?

Basically you get one strategy point per hero. You spend those points to buy Grand strategies which cost between 1 to 3 points and are exclusive to good or evil.

2) Random weather and time of day as per #65 DeAgostini, page 2.

The next couple were from a GBHL podcast 3 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeeXZq6XgCg

3) woodland creature gives +1 defense when model is in woodland

4) add the model’s fight value to the D6 of the duel roll

5) suggested in the comments, allow horns (and drums) to be picked up from fallen models like banners

What do you think of these?

Adding fight value sounds very interesting to tip the balance towards heroes and elites but may be game breaking. Thoughts?

Dwarves4thewin! · **Joined:** Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:59 pm **Posts:** 91

O, I like houserules. So, I will give my 2 cents.

1. I like the idea. I thought they made a few more in another isue... But maybe I'm wrong... You can always make more versions of it, maybe also some that are only possible by certain units/armies. I know one of them was shooting before the fight even started (with unlimited range I think), for the good side. Maybe that one may only be used by elves and the rangers of the north. And another I remember was 'stubborn' I think, about not having to back away for one turn and also not being trapped. That can be used for dwarves and maybe minas tirith (shieldwall units). But you have to make a lot of more of them to give it more variation. It's not fun if the same rules always are used and also it has to be balanced...
Another think to think about with this is letting 'bigger' heroes (legend/valour) be worth more strategy points and minor and independent none. So 2 for every legend/valour, 1 for every fortitude, or even 4 for legends, 3 for valour, 2 for fortitude and 1 for minor heroes. But then the cost of the special rules have to cost more, you have to try it out a lot to balance it out I think. But I like the idea very very much, it could give some extra to the game.

2. That's nice. I'm working on some table for determining where the battle take place in battle companies. So rolling once for which scenario to play and another one to know if you play in some small village, a forest, mountains, hills or even special places, like goblin town or lake town. I'm still working on.
But it's a 2D6 roll with 'normal' places in the middle, like a 7 is just a flat landscape with a few trees, maybe a few small hills (so not totaly flat after all) and a farm, nothing special, but when you roll 2,3, 11 or 12 you will roll again on the 'speciale places' table.
You can use that idea also for the weather, like a 2D6 roll, with something like this (I don't know the stuff in isue 65 exactly, just an idea, but I remember reading it long time ago):
2: ice/blizard storm
3: 'normal' storm (heavy rain and heavy wind)
4: heavy wind
5: heavy rain
6, 7, 8: normal weather
10: light rain
11: very cold, but no storm (water is frozen, it's only cold and you can walk on the water, with a little big of risc...)
12: sandstorm/desertstorm

3. I like the idea, it will help the wood elves a lot and also the heavy armoured elves. Maybe it's a bit to strong in a forest heavy board. I recently played (before corona...) against some elves and I played some mounted heroes in my BC and couldn't charge with the bonus, because of the difficult terrain and I had to come, because the bloody elven bows (literally...). So you have to make sure it's not to OP.

4. I don't think that will be fair. Elves almost don't have to roll against goblins... difference of 3, so when rolling a 3 is enough to auto-win. Let alone Gil-galad, with fight value 9, he don't even need to roll against about 60& of the warriors from the evil side I guess. I understand that it's tempting to let de fight value have more 'value', but I played a lot against elven armies lately, and it's 'secretly' already quite strong...

5. Hm, why not, why can a banner be picked up and a drum or horn not? Well, maybe not every model is musical enough... I would not pick it up in battle because of that... but in play, I would give it a try. Maybe it's because it's otherwise to strong, as in being to difficult to really destroy it. A banner gives -1 for the duel roll, a drum and horn not, I think, so maybe it's to easy to let that one 'flowing around'...?

Well, something to think about, right?
And if you have ideas for my 'where does the fight take place' table, let me know

I can post it soon, if it's a bit more filled (there are a lot of gaps right now).
Ooh, and I'm thinking about some new scenarios for BC. I will post them sometime soon. A few with a bridge (or more) in the middle, to fight for or sabotage and I want to make more 'we fight together' scenarios, like the warg attack.
I'm also thinking about recalculate the modelcount of warg attack, 24 is a lot of wargs for 2 new BC's, but it's not even scratching a well evolved BC, especially if it has some heavy armour... Maybe add some warg chieftains and certain point levels of the BC together.
Zorpazorp has some nices changed scenarios on his youtube channel somewhere, I hope he will making some more, saves me calculating it

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

1. There may be more in a later issue, I have not finished the last 20 issues or so. Good points you have made though.

2. My wife and I like long tables of random factors like that to help create unique gaming experiences.

3. Good point on the charge protection. Part of what I like about the rule suggestion is that it subconsciously urges the Elf player to stay in woods wherever possible. I have to admit though I was thinking only of unarmored Wood elves not the armored elves. That may get to be a bit much. We have had this same problem when my wife an I discussed Elven cloaks for all Elves.

4. Doh! For some reason I had it in my head fight value topped out at 6. I will need to rethink it. What I was aiming for was rather than a black and white better or worse, a series of gradually better or worse. As it stands now fighting a F4, it does not matter if you are a F2 or F3, you are equally disadvantaged.

5. Fair points. What keeps a player with a horn equipped mini from just hiding that mini in a remote part of the board? I can see a drum getting in the way of fighting as a banner but not a horn.

Once you publish your list of locations I will see if we can come up with more for you, sounds like fun!

For things like the cooperative scenarios and balancing, I guess using points values is the trick to get some balance. Same as hunt the troll. My wife and I learned a lot watching Zorpazorp videos.

Edit: You have a good memory! I found some faction specific grand strategies in #87, page 2. An interesting start but yeah, these would need to be expanded on to avoid becoming boring routine.

Dwarves4thewin! · **Joined:** Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:59 pm **Posts:** 91

Thanks Grumpy Gnome for the tips.
I was indeed thinking about pointlevels for the wargs and trolls. I think in a co-op the enemy should have about the same point level (with only warriors a bit less, because otherwise you would be swarmed to much..., but I prefer with some heroes, like warg chieftain, as long as it's pre-battle made up when he uses mightpoints) and if it's a '3 parties all for itself', it should be balanced in about the same points as the other parties are.

I made a few chart for where the scenario should take place, you can help me fill in the gaps and give some advice, maybe someone even made something similair already.

2D6 result on the normal chart:
2 & 3 Special chart
4 ?
5 Forest (roll another 2D6, see forest chart)
6 Normal forest (33-50% forest terrain?)
7 Plain landscape, a few small/low hills, a few trees, maybe a farm
8 Hills, about 33%? Some trees or a farm/small ruïn
9 ?
10 ?
11 & 12 Special chart

Forest chart (like on page 88 and 89 from battle companies, a bit changed, now on 2D6 instead of 1D6:
2, 3, 4 Haunted forest (angmar)
5, 6 Spider-intested forest (mirkwood, maybe a few changes from the original, otherwise there are a lot of spiders! And it could not be used in all scenario's I think)
7 Guarded forest (druadan, northern forest)
8, 9 Wratful forest (fangorn, old forest)
10, 11, 12 Haven forest (Lóthlorien)

On the forest table, the first, third and fifth option would be rolled 1/6 of the time, the second and fourth option would be rolled 1/4 of the time, so slightly more. Maybe there are some more options for 'special forest' or if there is 1 more it could be evenly divided on 1D6. Or the 'normal chart' could have 5 and 6 for the forest with this chart having a 'normal' forest about 33% trees and a dense forest with 50~60% trees?

And the special chart, roll 2D6:
2 Shire
3 Lake-town (page 86, 87 BC book)
4 Goblin-town (page 90 BC book)
5 Fallen dwarf holds (page 91 BC bo0k)
6 Rohan village (Some Rohan villagers trying to protect their homes, maybe a horse for the winning team?)
7 Osgiliath (maybe some special scenarios with bridges?)
8
9
10 Erech - fighting against the dead of dunharrow?
11 Haunted ruins (page 85 BC book)
12 Harad (I believe there was a battle games in middle earth issue with this, I think to one with Suladan or the Hasharin)

And some ideas about special/new scenarios, for battle companies:
Defending the bridge, as an object.
Sabotage the bridge, on a defender, the other as destroyer

Some mission in lake-town, like on house has something valuable in it and both BC's want that of course, maybe healing herbs. Maybe a D6 reward table (as in the missions in BC).

Battle against:
Wargs (update the scenario with 18 wargs and a chieftain for every 200 full points of BC, 12 wargs extra if has no 400 or 600 (etc) points, but 100 more than a full 200).
Spiders (no idea exactly, there are a, I think, 3 different spider profiles? Or 2? Not sure...
Barrow wights with orc, something like the same as the wargs, but with 18 orcs and a barrow wight for every 200 full points etc.
A company of MT or Rohan warriors, like defending something, with a captain and warriors, like above, you get the point. To make it more interesting, it should be a diffirent scenario then just only other warriors to 'fight throug'...
Druadan, like in the forest (page 88 and 89 form the BC book).

So... enough gaps to be filled and ideas to be work out...

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

I like the bridge idea for a scenario, bit surprised there is not an official scenario covering that.

The first edition Battle Companies had a Laketown narrative I seem to recall but I no longer have a copy of that edition.

Using Druadan as third party opponents is a good idea fluffwise as I seem to recall they we in constant conflict with Dunland and Rohan. Ruffians as bandits are good “neutral“ enemies.

I will see what I can find to help with your charts.

Also...

I came across an intriguing house rule for Battle Companies that is a bit crunchy but helps balance the experience system. Can you see any drawbacks other than the extra math work?

Credit to Simmushkan on Reddit
........................

We’ve only played a few factions (Haradrim, Rohan, Dwarves, Hobbits) and we house-ruled new xp because the Dwarves vs Hobbits meant that the dwarves leveled up way more quickly as it’s a per wound basis for xp.

As a result we grant xp = model cost when you kill something. You need 5x your model cost to “level up”. So instead of a flat 5 kills an 8 point warrior will need 8x5 = 40xp to level up.

It takes a tiny bit more record keeping (but we already used a spreadsheet so it’s not that bad) and seems much fairer so far.

So, for example, an 8 point dwarf only gets 4xp for killing a 4 point hobbit.
This tends to speed up the advancement of low point per model armies and slows the advancement of high point per model armies, which seems good to us.
Note that we do just play for fun not in competitions or anything though.

I should add that you divide the xp by the number of wounds. E.g. if you wound a model worth 60 points that has three wounds you get 20xp per wound.

Oh and the end of game when you get an xp point for playing the mission, your guys just get xp equal to their points cost. E.g, an 8 point warrior gets 8xp. This way, because they need 5x their points cost in xp to level up they still do so in 5 games like in the normal rules.

I forgot to mention how fun it is in the game when a super hero guy gets very little benefit from killing little Hobbits etc it encourages heroes to clash with heroes.
Also it makes for awesome moments when a lowly warrior does get a wound on an expensive hero, sometimes earning a promotion from that one wound! Good stories =)

No xp for wounding horses. The cost of the horse (and any other equipment) is already part of the points value of the hero or warrior, so if they start the mission mounted, whatever points value they were worth at the beginning of the mission is what is up for grabs.

And yes, when you win a scenario, any time the book says “gain 1 xp” you just get as much xp as you’re worth.

Eg. A hero worth 70 points gets 70xp for playing and 70xp for winning. They need 70x5=350xp to level up, so they are 140/350 = 2/5 of the way there. In the old system they’d have 2xp and need 5xp so also 2/5 of the

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

For battle location terrain, the first thing that immediately comes to mind is a swamp or marsh. Maybe reduced movement 50%?

The second location is a river, shallow or deep, bridge, ford or ferry.

You might find some inspiration in this discussion.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads ... es.771977/

Dwarves4thewin! · **Joined:** Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:59 pm **Posts:** 91

Interesting...
Maybe I wil make a long list with al interesting locatiions and give one or more numbers to it. Like 100 tabs and give some locations only 1 or 2% change, like goblin town, and a random village 4 or 5% change. With 2D10 that can easely be made. I think I will make something like that soon.
And about the xp-leveling stuff. Yes, I agree it would be fair to change to official rules for it. But maybe there's something in the middle. Mathematical it's not very difficult (at least for me, it's my job

), but it would be a lot of work... Maybe make it easier by double the needed xp and give 1 xp if the model is half or less in points, 2 xp if the model half to 2x the points and 3 xp if the model is worth 2x the points.
But then, it is stil a lot of extra work to keep tracking. I like the idea very much, but I don't want to slow the game down that much. And I use the battle company manager site (https://battle-companies-manager.com/), that would not work with the 'updated' system and it does work very good and much quicker than al the papers flying around...

I will make a list for 2D10 with the locations (with one dice to determine the tens), so there are up to 100 places on the table. But I can always have more by adding more dice

Grumpy Gnome · **Joined:** Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:17 pm **Posts:** 81

2d10 for percentages sounds good to create more flexibility in probabilities.

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