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How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31100		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Ive seen this model thrown around a lot and included in MANY armies over the last half a year to a year or so.

My question is how to defeat it.

I personally have an army that has a good chance to defeat one like that, though its not guaranteed.

So ideas gents?

Obviously a good player with Galadriel, Lady of Light or whatever the new ones called, should have it dead within about 5 rounds max, but thats a rare army choice.
How about Saruman the white? Just keep pushing him further from combat?
A ringwraith to do the same?
A lot of cavalry to flank him and spread the army out to ruin his bubble?
Shooting?

Tell me what you think, and have seen....
Author:  Valadorn [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
In addition to your solution consider an underrated (yolo+swag) model named Legolas and his arrows :P
Author:  Asamu [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Any wizard with Command/Compel, Sorc blast, or a faster army that can avoid combat or pick out the shade.

Flying monsters such as eagles/wraiths can charge the shade and hurl it away, using a heroic combat or heroic move if necessary.

Banners can help to counter the -1 penalty with extra dice to win fights.

Enough shooting to whittle down whatever they are using with the shade to have an advantage when combat hits, and a high might count to bump 5s to 6s to win fights when you need to would work wonders.

A grey company force would probably work quite well against most shade lists, as it has both parts of that last point: tons of shooting, and plenty of might spread throughout the army. If it's cave trolls+ the shade, grey company should do amazing; if it's mass orcs + the shade, it should still do pretty well. Vs Harad the game should be pretty much even. If they are throwing the shade into a mass goblin list, grey company will probably have trouble due to the numbers.
Author:  LordElrond [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Use sentinels or spectres or magic to move it out of effective range or move it within the charge range of your guys.
Get high tier heroes like your Boromirs, Gil-Galads, etc. into them by heroic combatting from the flank into the rear of the enemy lines (where the shade will be).
Try your best to break the army and it will pretty much instantly run away, being like courage onee or whatever it is.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Valadorn wrote:
In addition to your solution consider an underrated (yolo+swag) model named Legolas and his arrows :P



Nah hes garbage bro. Didnt you see him bleed in 1 of the 6 films once? Lol....I have used Leggo before, expended my might, and never got 1 wound on the nasty thing.


Asamu wrote:
Any wizard with Command/Compel, Sorc blast, or a faster army that can avoid combat or pick out the shade.

Flying monsters such as eagles/wraiths can charge the shade and hurl it away, using a heroic combat or heroic move if necessary.

Banners can help to counter the -1 penalty with extra dice to win fights.

Enough shooting to whittle down whatever they are using with the shade to have an advantage when combat hits, and a high might count to bump 5s to 6s to win fights when you need to would work wonders.

A grey company force would probably work quite well against most shade lists, as it has both parts of that last point: tons of shooting, and plenty of might spread throughout the army. If it's cave trolls+ the shade, grey company should do amazing; if it's mass orcs + the shade, it should still do pretty well. Vs Harad the game should be pretty much even. If they are throwing the shade into a mass goblin list, grey company will probably have trouble due to the numbers.


I thought Grey Company would be a good idea for sure. And flying things...Maybe monsters hurling through the lines into him....


LordElrond wrote:
Use sentinels or spectres or magic to move it out of effective range or move it within the charge range of your guys.
Get high tier heroes like your Boromirs, Gil-Galads, etc. into them by heroic combatting from the flank into the rear of the enemy lines (where the shade will be).
Try your best to break the army and it will pretty much instantly run away, being like courage onee or whatever it is.


Spectres is nice idea but tough to catch Angmar vs Angmar.

Sentinels true....and the heroic combats are a nice idea.


Overall guys Im thinking more tactically too because its hard to know when youll face one besides if you know your opponents lisy which is rare.
Author:  Dikey [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Shade are really hateful. Using one does not require any skill but fighting against it is awful.
3 wounds and def 8 will made almost all archery useless. Grey Company will wound on 6/5. Considering this number and the fact that the shade will be hiding behind two ranks at the very least, you may get one wound in one round of full shooting (1 in 54 chance if hiding behind one). Legolas will still wound on a 6/4. The BOTFA combo Legolas-Alfrid may give the elf the might he needs to wound.

Quote:
Use sentinels or spectres or magic to move it out of effective range or move it within the charge range of your guys.


this is brilliant. They only have a courage of 1, so chances are that they will fail. But they still have 3 will points to spend to boost the test.

Another counter may be the King of the Dead. Should he win he can get rid of the Shade with the Blades of the Dead/drain soul combo on a 3+.

not exactly a counter per se, but Rumil may partially nullify the effect of the shade on himself. By forcing the opponent to reroll 6, he will have better chances to win and create a path.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Good ideas there....didnt know about the courage and yes rumil is awesome.
Author:  Bronf [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
a monster rending it would destroy's it but that destory's almost everything and you would need a good courage monster to do it with
Author:  Dikey [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Bronf wrote:
a monster rending it would destroy's it but that destory's almost everything and you would need a good courage monster to do it with


We should consider that Shades often come with a Nazgul, usually the Witch King (to have some might in the army) and their -1 to courage.
The good side may count on Beorn (fearless) and Treebeard (good courage) to rend. Eagles, with only two attacks, should throw the Shade istead, because even with a successfull rending the shade would stay around.

I'm surprised nobody thought of Floi. Floi is quite common in Durin's Folk's armies because his rule is good against many opponents. Floi can negate the -1 effect long enough for a tough Dwarven hero to make a hole in the orc's ranks and reach the shade.
Author:  Jobu [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
As others have pointed out, avoid combat for as long as possible, shoot as much as you can, stretch his forces out so the player with the shade must decide which area to keep the shade.
This is usually how I deal with them, I do not always bring magic while playing good so I have to rely on tactics. Once they are broken the shade flees.
For good armies Radagast on sled; on the charge, 5 attacks at s4, wounding on 6's vs D8, woodland creature and always has line of sight, renew on the sled? I know I have said it before but that model is a beast for it's points. Or bring him on eagle, not as many attacks but higher strength and all while being able to draw line of sight even if behind a building. Just noticed that AUJ profile has panic steed while TBoTFA version has natures wrath. I do not have my DoS book with me, which does he have in that one?
Author:  Valadorn [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to defeat a shade....your input and any experience?
Jobu wrote:
As others have pointed out, avoid combat for as long as possible, shoot as much as you can, stretch his forces out so the player with the shade must decide which area to keep the shade.


This is the general advice for any army. If you step a tournament, you won't come with an an army only to fight shade armies. So the theory here is the key.
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