The One Ring :: View topic - Tactics against a Spectre army?

He has 18 Spectres, w/ Orc spear support, a Shade, WK on Fell and Grisnak.

I have 18 Black Numenorian Venomblades, w/ Serpent spears, Shade, Betrayer on Fell, Chieften and Taskmaster.

We're playing High Ground.

Luckily, only one Test needs passing per round --so those who have passed get to charge without another test.

Specs are pathetic in combat, just take them head on. If you've got enough models close together they they will be unable to really pick your troops and move them away to be killed alone, as you'll be able to move friends up to help them.

thanks all --but army variations I can get in Army Help. Here, I need tactics to use with what I have, just as if I came to a tournament and had to face what comes.

For example: if I bunch everyone up, three (even four) deep, bottle the ends with BNs, then I'm trapped but at least fight with 2 attacks and higher Fight. Dead if I lose, anyway... What do you think?

Trying to justify using Betrayer since Rend kinda makes Poison rerolls pointless. In playtesting, it has come in handy to have a 'sure killer' rule that isn't a Brutal Power Attack for that second attack in Heroic Combat. Not overwhelmed so far with wound rerolls on 1 and 2...though when I need a 5 to kill (as against Spectres), means literally half of my failed To Wound rolls get re-rolls... Needing to be within 6" is very limiting, however.

This is a random game with armies we would not normally field. So playing with Harad combinations that could be useful (if that answers the question). Do the Poison rerolls pay off enough to take Serpent Guards (I don't need their F4 with the new spear rules) and VenomBlades? Better spent on Castillians for F5? Maybe...but Reavers look better & cheaper, despite less defense.

3 Might, 14 Will, 2 Fate.

Spectres look less intimidating, if I can close quickly and engage.
Curious on more insights...

thanks.

Author:	Rozinante [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Tactics against a Spectre army?
He has 18 Spectres, w/ Orc spear support, a Shade, WK on Fell and Grisnak. I have 18 Black Numenorian Venomblades, w/ Serpent spears, Shade, Betrayer on Fell, Chieften and Taskmaster. We're playing High Ground.

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
You need bows so you can shoot at all the spectres as they have a low defence. Your Shade will cancel out your opponents so that won't be a worry though.

Author:	Rozinante [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Thanks. No bows. And their defense is high enough that I'd have to roll a 6 anyway.. unless I had elven bows. But if I had elves, I wouldn't need help. We picked our armies blind and agreed not to change. I asked for a minor variation anyway: Lady of Light, Celeborn and his new Guards...but my intuition tells me he won't go for it.

Author:	orc-archer [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
You both have Shades, but you have the advantage of highest Fight value which should help if you both fight supported by a Shade in the same area.

Author:	LordElrond [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Obviously boosting your courage with some bodyguard troops or a war horn would be the easiest way to deal with the spectres.

The One Ring http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/

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Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Rozinante wrote: He has 18 Spectres, w/ Orc spear support, a Shade, WK on Fell and Grisnak. I have 18 Black Numenorian Venomblades, w/ Serpent spears, Shade, Betrayer on Fell, Chieften and Taskmaster. We're playing High Ground. 1-Wow. Youre a champ for playing against anyone who'd spam that many shades. 2-You have no army flexibility? Like....that will for sure be your army? It seems like the scenario is slated for him to win.....

Author:	Rozinante [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
In a play-test, I've ringed my Shade in. That kept him in play, so far--just enough Black Numenorians passed their Courage Tests to keep my Shade in one place. With both Shades cancelling each other (except where zones don't over lap), my Fight 4 has me winning fights. When the Spectre wins, however, I die on a 4+. Ouch. Luckily, only one Test needs passing per round --so those who have passed get to charge without another test. Spectres have high Courage so no trouble for them to charge. Anybody play against so many Spectres in a tournament? Insights?

Author:	Badner [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Maybe you can also try to use orcs with fury to charge them so they can't use their special rule anymore.

Author:	Grungehog [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
to be fair with an enemy like that you want to shoot them from far away, use watchers of karna, they seem the most ideal fit against terror causing units also as you said the venomblade knights are losing their edge because you're paying for armour that in this case is useless replace the BN for watchers of karna with bow your list would double in efficacy. Also as others have said do not hesitate to use a warhorn to further your benefit.

Author:	Rozinante [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
thanks all --but army variations I can get in Army Help. Here, I need tactics to use with what I have, just as if I came to a tournament and had to face what comes. For example: if I bunch everyone up, three (even four) deep, bottle the ends with BNs, then I'm trapped but at least fight with 2 attacks and higher Fight. Dead if I lose, anyway... What do you think?

Author:	Badner [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Than please show me your army.

Author:	Frêrin [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Rozinante wrote: Luckily, only one Test needs passing per round --so those who have passed get to charge without another test. That's wrong. You only have to pass one kind of test every round. So if you passed it for the spectre's special rule you still need to do one to attack them. A bit more information on how your opponent plays would be helpful. I'd try to sap will the witchking channeled (hopefully the taskmaster will help) and if there is any possibility to attack the shade with your betrayer take him and hurl

Author:	JamesR [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Specs are pathetic in combat, just take them head on. If you've got enough models close together they they will be unable to really pick your troops and move them away to be killed alone, as you'll be able to move friends up to help them. Also your fell beast needs to be in the thick of it hurling those pests left and right

Author:	Rozinante [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
JamesR wrote: Specs are pathetic in combat, just take them head on. If you've got enough models close together they they will be unable to really pick your troops and move them away to be killed alone, as you'll be able to move friends up to help them. Yes: quick charge is my best hope: thanks. Frerin: thanks for the clarification.

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Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Rozinante wrote: thanks all --but army variations I can get in Army Help. Here, I need tactics to use with what I have, just as if I came to a tournament and had to face what comes. For example: if I bunch everyone up, three (even four) deep, bottle the ends with BNs, then I'm trapped but at least fight with 2 attacks and higher Fight. Dead if I lose, anyway... What do you think? Can I ask where youre coming from in using this army? I ask for two reasons. One.....Im genuinely curious why youre using this army. Two....if you tell me whats going on in your head with this army I can probably learn better what youre thinking about how to take this army. Ill be happy to try to chime in later after that. Edit: Oh, and Witch King with how much might, will, and fate?

Author:	Rozinante [ Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
[quote="LordoftheBrownRing Can I ask where youre coming from in using this army? I ask for two reasons. One.....I'm genuinely curious why youre using this army.[/quote] Trying to justify using Betrayer since Rend kinda makes Poison rerolls pointless. In playtesting, it has come in handy to have a 'sure killer' rule that isn't a Brutal Power Attack for that second attack in Heroic Combat. Not overwhelmed so far with wound rerolls on 1 and 2...though when I need a 5 to kill (as against Spectres), means literally half of my failed To Wound rolls get re-rolls... Needing to be within 6" is very limiting, however. [quote=Two....if you tell me whats going on in your head with this army I can probably learn better what youre thinking about how to take this army.[/quote] This is a random game with armies we would not normally field. So playing with Harad combinations that could be useful (if that answers the question). Do the Poison rerolls pay off enough to take Serpent Guards (I don't need their F4 with the new spear rules) and VenomBlades? Better spent on Castillians for F5? Maybe...but Reavers look better & cheaper, despite less defense. [quote="Edit: Oh, and Witch King with how much might, will, and fate?[/quote] 3 Might, 14 Will, 2 Fate. Spectres look less intimidating, if I can close quickly and engage. Curious on more insights... thanks.

Author:	SouthernDunedain [ Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
You can use a second BPA if you heroic combat. You may Hurl then Rend, Rend then Hurl, Rend then Rend, Hurl then hurl. The only restriction is that you may not Barge if you are heroic combating.

Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Tactics against a Spectre army?
Quote: Trying to justify using Betrayer since Rend kinda makes Poison rerolls pointless. In playtesting, it has come in handy to have a 'sure killer' rule that isn't a Brutal Power Attack for that second attack in Heroic Combat. Not overwhelmed so far with wound rerolls on 1 and 2...though when I need a 5 to kill (as against Spectres), means literally half of my failed To Wound rolls get re-rolls... Needing to be within 6" is very limiting, however. Youre talking about the Bane of Kings rule, and yeah, its not that important in the grand scheme of things. But hey, you rend and wound on a 3+ usually right? Then re roll anything else. So you have an almost guaranteed chance to kill heroes in one turn of winning a fight. Nice rule. The reason you spend points on this guy though, is his master of poisons. 6 inches may seem limiting to you, but its a harad wraith, and those re rolls are helpful. Im personally not completely sold on him either mind you. I used him with archers and the re rolls only got a handful of kills in an 850 point game. Quote: This is a random game with armies we would not normally field. So playing with Harad combinations that could be useful (if that answers the question). Do the Poison rerolls pay off enough to take Serpent Guards (I don't need their F4 with the new spear rules) and VenomBlades? Better spent on Castillians for F5? Maybe...but Reavers look better & cheaper, despite less defense. 1-I hope you wouldnt normally field these lol. 2-No, I wouldnt waste time with the Serpents. Theyre difficult to obtain in large quantities....but even gaming wise theyre not as amazing as everyone seems to think. I got rid of mine after several tries. Venomblades...nah. The only upgrade Id take on B Numenoreans is to fight 5. ** Elves. Id take a front line of a couple groups of fight 5 Numenoreans and then Reavers and Haradrim base troops with spear support. Quote:** 3 Might, 14 Will, 2 Fate. Spectres look less intimidating, if I can close quickly and engage. Curious on more insights... thanks. If you can some how manage, throw troops through other spectres, and take a war horn. Thats all I can say. These are two really weird armies.