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Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25481		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LordElrond [ Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Hi guys,
Wondering wha tis th ebest way to use the Witch-King?
I've given him a horse in my Angmar list to escape from Combat when I need him to and to give him that extra punch when he does decide to enter combat.
If you're wondering what my army is if that will effect your answer, it is here: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=25456

Please feel free to leave suggestions in either thread.

Please help!

Thanks,
LordElrond
Author:  Orome [ Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Personally I'd say his primary use in this force should be to Sap Will or Immobilise any tough heroes so Buhrdur or you're troll can crush them without too much difficulty.
Obviously he also has excellent Courage, so he's useful just in case your force breaks as well.
Author:  Goldman25 [ Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Put him in the centre of your army so that he can give Courage support to the orcs, and have him use his Transfix/Compel to pull the enemy Heroes/monsters away from your troops. Use his Black Dart on banners/weakened Heroes/weakened monsters to take away their bonuses
Author:  MorannonChief [ Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
I think that if you don't plan on using the Morgul Crown or if your not playing wizards with staffs that you should just go with a named Ringwraith. I like the Dark Marshal because of his M/W/F build and banner rule.
Author:  rkruse [ Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
I would drop the named troll in favor of a shaman, then fill out your warbands with orcs to max. That will give you 39 models, then toss those extra points into your witch king at +3 might, +2 fate, and +2 more will. that should put you at 500 pts. 39 models at 500 pts is solid, also move your cave troll into your WK war band, that way he can stay close right from the deployment and jump in on those "transfix" combats to punish Heroes.
Author:  rkruse [ Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Also if you keep the trackers in the 3rd warband and not buy orcs with shields as I was calculating, that gives you another 12 pts from my previous post. Then you can add 2 more will to the WK and a few more spears onto your shield orcs. that brings the WK to 14 will. Now he can afford to cast quite a bit in the battle!! Then you also have 12 ranged units, so deploy max distance if they dont have archers, and shoot at them while they close, using the WK to sap will as they do. Then when you clash against them, hopefully thier Heroes wont be able to resist your transfix/ compells and listen to Sean Bean cry out in horror and you snap that chain from around your big guy's neck," They have a cave Troll!!!" :o
Author:  Joe Schmo Orc [ Fri May 03, 2013 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Hi all! New to the boards, but not to LOTR/Hobbit SBG. Here are my thoughts on some nazgul tactica, particularly with the named ringwraiths. Won't put much detail in this post for sake of length, but welcome your thoughts/critique and will provide more rational if needed.

First of all, here is a nice piece from GW on tactics with ringwraiths that is a great start:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... actica.pdf

Basic Guidelines:

1. Ringwraiths are great wizards and support heroes, and not meant for combat. With 1-2 ringwriaths you can totally control how magical powers impact the game, even if the other side has a wizard with a staff. Ringwraiths are great for countering big heroes.

2. Only exception to #1 is Khamul the Easterling on a Fell Beast. With a Fell Beast he becomes one of the best models in the game, and in single combat with almost always demolish any hero due to his combination of Essence Leach, Transfix, and Brutal Power Attacks.

3. Named ringwraiths are not worth the points until you play games over 600 pts. But in those large games, the right named ringwraiths can be very dominant because they are the counterpoint to the bigger heroes you see in those games.

4. Witch King is far from the best ringwraith for his points. For pretty much whatever you want to do with a ringwraith, he has counterparts that do it better.


In smaller games I might take a cheap 70-80 pt ringwraith every once and a while. The tactics for using such a hero are well explained in the GW link. I will rank the ringwraiths I take in larger games though, based on (A) Fight, (B) Support, and (C) Overall.

(A) Combat Potential (ALWAYS take a Fell Beast if you intend to put a wraith in combat. Basic Fell Beast is fine, unless you are facing eagles, then take the Horned Fell Beast so you can get STR 7 and use monster rules against them)

1. Khamul the Easterling
2. Knight of Umbar
3. Witch King +Crown of Morgul
4. Dark Marshall
5-9. The rest in no particular order...

(B) Support

1. The Undying - Particularly if you take 1-2 cheap wraiths and allow The Undying to soak up Will from the spells they case. Often if done right means The Undying will have 30+ usable Will over course of game....
2. Dwimmerlaik - Sap Fortitude is simply one of the most powerful special abilities in the game. Totally changes tactics of opponent, huge range.
3. Dark Marshall - Banner with huge range. Makes him a great inexpensive option, since you can save the points on 1-2 banners (25-50 pts). Your heroes can't use the banner, but if you play evil you rely on numbers of warriors - not heroes.
4. Tainted - Great nerf, only reason why he isn't higher is that his greatest impact is only felt once opponent is broken and he has to survive until then.
5. Shadow Lord
6. The Betrayer (higher if you field a lot of Haradrim)
7. Witch King
8-9. The rest...

(C) Overall

1. Khamul on Fell Beast
2. Undying
3. Dwimmerlaik
4. Witch King + Crown
5. Dark Marshall
6. Knight of Umbar
7. Tainted
8. Shadow Lord
9. Betrayer
10. Basic wraith
Author:  Manadar [ Wed May 08, 2013 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
I have been using the betrayer on a fell beast at the last tournment I went. I can assure you that he's very effective. For instance I compelled (only 4+ needed) Balin then won the fight. He took 6 S6 attacks (as he was rolled over) against his S4. It means 6 dices to roll a 3+ to wound you can reroll. I was able to one-shot Balin, Floi, another ringwraith, two isengard trolls and many captains across the tournament.
Author:  Draugluin [ Wed May 08, 2013 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Str7 Fell Beasts are literally no better than basic fell beasts against eagles. If you Rend, you still need a 4+ against an eagles Str6. If you don't, you still need a 5+ against an eagles Def8.

The Tainted is by far the worst Nazgul. Period. He only has 1/12/1, so he won't be casting many spells, his rule is more detrimental than helpful, as it also prevents your C2 guys from benefiting from higher courage, and he's the easiest of any of them to kill, with his only 1 fate.
Author:  Joe Schmo Orc [ Sat May 11, 2013 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
STR 6 Fell Beasts do not get the Extra Attack and Knock to the Ground special rules against Eagles. A monster has to have a higher STR to gain those rules against another monster. Hence why taking STR 7 Fell Beasts is worth it if you play against Eagles frequently.

Bane of Kings is a nice special rule. I just don't like having wraiths in combat unless they have a way to gain back Will or conserve it, like Khamul and Knight of Umbar. Given that you will probably want to cast 3-4 spells over the course of the game, and those spells will average 2 Will each to cast, you essentially only have 6 turns of combat for the Betrayer. If you take a Fell Beast, that's 170+ points for a single model that has 6 turns of combat to make the points back. Definition of a glass cannon. Some games it could be great, but some games it will be frustrating. And if you don't cast any spells and just use him for combat, there are other more cost effective monsters/heroes that will do their job much better. The Betrayer is much more valuable in a Harad force however due to the poison re-rolls.

Just IMO. But you are right, Bane of Kings + Fell Beast certaintly hurts a lot.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sat May 11, 2013 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
But would a 25 point upgrade be worth taking JUST so you can knock over a few eagles?
Author:  Tezzy [ Sat May 11, 2013 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Perhaps the tainted isn't the best ringwraith, but I feel he still is rather good. At least in my meta heroic moves are the most important heroic action out there, so denying a bunch of horsemen from making a heroic move and then letting me charge with mine wouldn't be that bad.

If the tainted is on a fell beast its easier for him to be in position to deny large swaths of warriors their heroic moves (due to its larger base and speed), but if hes just horse back he could still get in position well. Also do you guys know if heroes can use fate to ignore the wound from seeping decay? I thought usually abilities had to say if you could or couldn't. Regardless I view the tainted as more of a lone wolf who distracts your enemy from your main force, or just as a hard to engage wizard.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sun May 12, 2013 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
You can always use Fate when you are wounded. And he also ruins any of your own heroic moves, not just your opponents. And he ruins your own courage, and seeing as the average evil warrior has C2, that's much more of a detriment than anything else. And besides, compare him to the other Nazgul, all of them are better.
Author:  Tezzy [ Sun May 12, 2013 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
How does he ruin your own courage? Also he only denies heroic moves and Stand Fast!'s within 6", so like I said he need to head in face first into the enemies flank with a mount of some kind. With 2+ Drain Courage, 3+ Transfix, Terror, and Harbinger of Evil, the Tainted like other ring wraiths isn't easy to bog down, and if he is mounted on a fellbeast or horse he should be able to get to his destination easily.

Like I said, perhaps the tainted is the worst of the named ring wraiths, but my point was that he still isn't a bad hero, he just needs some set up.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sun May 12, 2013 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
My point was that he is the worst nazgul. And he negates ALL stand fasts and heroic moves, including those made by your own heroes within 6".
Author:  Tezzy [ Mon May 13, 2013 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Sorry if this is getting annoying now but yes Drauglin I'm not debating that he isn't the worst! He very well could be, and probably is. I was just trying to come up with some reasons where he COULD be used and be useful.

And yes, all warriors within 6"- including your own warriors. He definitely can backfire if hes close to your own guys!
Author:  Joe Schmo Orc [ Tue May 14, 2013 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Witch-King / Ringwraith Tactica?
Draugluin wrote:
My point was that he is the worst nazgul. And he negates ALL stand fasts and heroic moves, including those made by your own heroes within 6".


I agree with Tezzy in that I think you are being a bit hyperbolic here. If you are an Evil force playing against a Good force (which is what the game was designed for) denying heroic moves impacts the Good force much more than the Evil force since Good armies traditionally rely on Might more.

And denying Stand Fasts at the end of the game also hurts Good significantly since with their high Courage heroes their warriors generally never have to make Courage tests. While it hurts Evil too, it has been mostly my experience that Evil forces don't last very long once they are broken since most their heroes have average Courage.

I think if played right the Tainted can be a very annoying hero to play against. But of course, to each his own.
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