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Neither of them were uruks

Not in the film, but they were in the book and I care more about the book than the film

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

Not in the film, but they were in the book and I care more about the book than the film

In the book, Grishnakh was a large orc with long arms unless I missed him getting the Uruk label. As for Gorbag, wasn't he a Orc while Shagrat was a Uruk or was it the other way around? I don't remember.

Draugluin wrote:

Neither of them were uruks

Not in the film, but they were in the book and I care more about the book than the film

Sure they would, who do you think would have done it before Sauron created the Uruk-hai? Besides, it would make more sense to send an orc to lead a single company of orcs than a single Uruk-hai to. Uruk-hai would be in command of either many companies of orcs or single companies of Uruk-hai.

OK then, We are agreed, Gorbag was an Uruk-hai but Grishnakh was an Orc.

Author:	Battalia [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:38 am ]
Post subject:	Lurtz
Hes not really a beast in SBG, but while watching the movie again, and watching Lurtz pin Aragorn to the tree, I couldn't help but appreciate how he was one of the few, if not only uruk's to use those darn spikes on their shields, and then it hit me: Lurtz can throw his shield once per game like a throwing weapon. If Lurtz throws his shield his defence is immediatly lowered by 1 point and the shield is lost. If he hits the enemy they are knocked to the ground. This would be especially powerful when charging an enemy hero, but the perma loss of the shield balances out the effect in my opinion. What do you guys think?

Author:	Beowulf03809 [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
In play Lurtz is actually pretty good. He isn't designed (nor should he be) to take out a major character like Aragorn or Bormir single handed. But working with a few other Uruks you will find he adds a nice punch. That being said, this is a very interesting idea for a special rule for him. I suggest you try to use it locally. I think it could be fun. It does make him pretty dangerous as a knocked-to-the-ground condition could be the death of even the greatest Hero if charged by a few enemy. If you find it unbalances things too much then maybe give the option to use Fate to avoid it (like Aragorn slipping out just before the sword swings over in the film).

Author:	hithero [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
Your not the first to suggest this, probably the 101st Lurtz doesn't actually get a defence point for his shield anyway as he is carring a bow, so no need to deduct one, just count it as a throwing weapon if you wish. On the actual encounter, Lurtz is fresh and unharmed while Aragorn has been fighting a ton of Uruk-hai and probably exhausted and injured. So take Lurtz and then have a dual with Aragorn with no Might or Fate and maybe lost a wound or two and see how you get on.

Author:	FireKnife [ Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
Really the named Evil Heroes like Lurtz, Ugluk, Vrasku, Grishnak, Gorbag and so on and so forth are really only meant to be regular Captains with either an extra point of might and some kit or even a basic special rule. They are meant to be just really a Hero to use if you are building a themed army or to add a bit extra over a regular captain. Personally i used Lurtz just as for his points you get a captain with a bit of kit and a extra tot of Might plus he fir my armies theme (the band of Uruks that tackle the Fellowship at Amon Hen). 'FireKnife'

Author:	Draugluin [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
At first I was expecting them to make Lurtz over powered (as every other LotR game does), but I was pleased with how he turned out. The only Uruk Captain that is overpowered (especially for not appearing in the books OR movies) is Vrasku. I mean, come on, 2 shots a turn with a crossbow AND and extra point of might? But ya, like FireKnife said they're really just to be slightly better leaders. Shagrat is the only one that really deserves to be a 3A 3W hero, though Ugluk should have been at least a little better.

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Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
Ah, I digress a little, but Grishnakh and Gorbag should've been made Uruk-hai Captains.

Author:	Draugluin [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
Neither of them were uruks

Author:	WayUnderTheMountain [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: Not in the film, but they were in the book and I care more about the book than the film In the book, Grishnakh was a large orc with long arms unless I missed him getting the Uruk label. As for Gorbag, wasn't he a Orc while Shagrat was a Uruk or was it the other way around? I don't remember.

Author:	Draugluin [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
WayUnderTheMountain wrote: GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: Not in the film, but they were in the book and I care more about the book than the film In the book, Grishnakh was a large orc with long arms unless I missed him getting the Uruk label. As for Gorbag, wasn't he a Orc while Shagrat was a Uruk or was it the other way around? I don't remember. Yes they were, Gorbag was never mentioned either way, but he was smaller than Shagrat. Grishnahk was definitly an orc. And I care more about the book as well.

Author:	Draugluin [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: Draugluin wrote: Neither of them were uruks Not in the film, but they were in the book and I care more about the book than the film Technically uruk means orc, I meant uruk-hai.

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
Firstly, both Shagrat and Gorbag were uruk-hai, the fight at Cirith Ungol was between the uruk-hai and orc of Cirith Ungol led by Shagrat, fighting against the Uruk-hai and Orcs of Minas Morgul. (I don't think many uruk-hai would obe an orc) Secondly, Grishnakh was shorter than Ugluk but with longer arms. He was an Uruk-hai, but Tolkien was describing the anatamical difference between Mordor Uruk-hai and Isengard Uruk-hai. Grishnakh was also high ranked as he spoke directly to one of the Nazgul.

Author:	Beowulf03809 [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
I think that is one of the key differences. In Mordor, Uruk Hai were simply "greater Orc". Larger, more tolerant of day, and more intelligent than their common kin the Orc (Uruk). Saruman's Uruk Hai were more "manish" as described by Aragorn (I believe) during their pursuit across Rohan. PJ (and therefore GW) elected to make the Mordor Uruk Hai very upright in their stance and mannish in appearance similar to the Isengard Uruk Hai, but I don't believe that was how they were really described. I think that PJ's portrayal of Grishnak is probably closer to how I took the Mordor Uruk Hai to appear...just needed to be a little larger to help him command/dominate the common Orcs under his charge.

Author:	Draugluin [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Grishn%C3%A1kh, http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Gorbag. Sorry, Gorbag was an Uruk-hai, but Grishnahk was not. I just took Gorbag's whining to mean he was an orc. I alway figured that all of Gorbags group were orcs, not uruk-hai. The Uruk-hai of Mordor were basically the same as Isengard, just that the Uruk-hai of Isengard were kinda "perfected", they definitly thought they were better than anything else made by either Sauron or Saruman. I think the Isengard Uruk-hai were definitly a bit more "mannish" appearing, but they were still the same basic thing.

Author:	Draugluin [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
Sure they would, who do you think would have done it before Sauron created the Uruk-hai? Besides, it would make more sense to send an orc to lead a single company of orcs than a single Uruk-hai to. Uruk-hai would be in command of either many companies of orcs or single companies of Uruk-hai.

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Author:	Draugluin [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
Because the orcs of Moria lived in total blackness without any real leader, while the orcs of Mordor were a bit more used to the light and were more used to forced marches over great distances.

Author:	Draugluin [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lurtz
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: OK then, We are agreed, Gorbag was an Uruk-hai but Grishnakh was an Orc. As much as I hate emoticons, especially ones that move, .