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 Post subject: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:56 am 
Wayfarer
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hey guys,

ive been playing strategy battle game for a little while now and i mainly got into it while working in GW but one thing that always bothered me was the there was only named wizards and no generic wizards, to be honest i know gandalf is mighty cool but sometimes you dont quite have that many points to spare, also it is quite nice to convert your own magician, anyways i decided to make some rules for good wizards, evil sorcerors, elven enchanters and dwarf battle mages. it would be nice to have some feedback on what you think, please dont tear me a new one if you dont like it :-D, thanks!


The below characters represent generic wizards in the LOTR universe who have been trained under the watchful and powerful eye of the more well known wizards such as Gandalf and Saruman.


Highly respected and often renown, human mages range from powerful battle mages with the ability to annihilate enemies in one fell swoop to the more subdued magician who prefers to heal and aid his allies.

Good Wizard Points= 60
F S D A W C M W F
3/4+ 3 4 1 2 4 1 2 1

War gear:
Human wizards are armed with a Staff (two handed weapon) and a sword, they may use either or in combat. They may also choose any of the following:

Bow = 2pts
Horse = 10pts
Armour = 5pts
Shield = 5pts
Magic Powers:
Immobilise. Dice score to use: 2+
Sorcerous Blast. Dice score to use: 4+
Signature spell (see rules). Dice score to use: 5+


Dark and twisted these wicked sorcerers strayed to darkness long ago. Since then their powers have been entwined with the fate of the one ring and their dark lord form. They dedicate their time trying to find the one ring for their master and receive greater power as reward.

Evil Sorcerer Points= 60
F S D A W C M W F
3/- 4 4 1 2 3 1 1 2

War gear:
Evil wizards are armed with a Staff (two handed weapon) and a sword, they may use either or in combat. They may also choose any of the following:

Horse or Warg = 10pts
Armour = 5pts
Shield = 5pts
Bow = 2pts
Magic Powers:
Black Dart. Dice score to use: 2+
Sorcerous Blast. Dice score to use: 4+
Signature spell (see rules). Dice score to use: 5+

One of the oldest races inhabiting middle earth, they were one of the first users of magic, however their age and diminishing race has made them suspicious and untrusting, they use their powers to protect their lands and people.

Elven Enchanter Points = 70
F S D A W C M W F
4/3+ 3 3 1 2 5 1 3 1

War gear:
Elven enchanters are armed with an Elven blade and a talisman that is used to cast spells. They may also choose any of the following:

Horse = 10pts
Elven cloak = 10pts
Elf Bow = 5pts
Armour = 5pts
Magic Powers:
Terrifying Aura. Dice score to use: 2+
Sorcerous Blast. Dice score to use: 4+
Signature spell (see rules). Dice score to use: 5+

Shunned and viewed with much suspicion from their peers, dwarven mages often relocate to allied and more accepting settlements to harness and be trained in the use of magic. However in recent times they have been more accepted in dwarven society due to their ability to cast a blinding light turning cave trolls to stone in an instant!

Dwarf Battle Mage Points = 60
F S D A W C M W F
4/4+ 3 4 1 2 4 2 1 1

War gear:
Dwarf mages are armed with an Axe (hand weapon) and a runic talisman that is used to cast spells. They may also choose any of the following:

Armour: 5pts
Throwing axe: 5pts
Shield: 5pts
Dwarf Bow = 5pts
Magic Powers:
Blinding Light. Dice score to use: 2+
Sorcerous Blast. Dice score to use: 4+
Signature spell (see rules). Dice score to use: 5+

Rules:
Wizard in Training:
These young wizards have much to live up to in the way of their masters, and unlike their masters who have the ability to always retain 1 will point these young trainees have not quite got the harnessed power or been blessed with potent talismans that allow them to do this. However their training has allowed them to have a minor level of will regeneration. Therefore when a wizard runs out of will they may attempt to restore a single will point, this is done when a magic spell would nominally be cast, the player must roll a 4+, if this is successful then they gain 1 will point next turn, this can be done whenever a wizard runs out of will points.

Will:
Wizards have powerful and complex minds, this gift allows then to learn at an exponential rate, and to represent a wizard may buy an extra point of will for 10pts up to a maximum of 5. When a wizard has 5 will point his score needed to regain a will point via wizard in training is reduced to 3+ rather than 4+.

Woodland creature:
Elves only see Legolas entry in main rulebook

Signature spell:
Often a wizard will model their powers on their idols who trained them and thus they often choose a spell in their trainer’s honour as a matter of respect. All wizards have a single signature spell. You may choose a single spell from the spell list as your wizards signature spell, this spell will always casts on a 5+
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:45 am 
Elven Elder
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Nice idea, particular the good human and evil magicians, but I think a dwarf sorceror is unthematic and there's already an Elven Stormcaller.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:56 am 
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thanks for the reply, to be honest i didnt know about the elf stormcaller exists so thanks for that. i also tend to agree about the dwarf but i liked the obscureness of it, i think what was going through my mind was more the idea of rune enchanting which i decided to turn into bolt of lighning magic and summoning, i think i didnt want to make it warhammer fanatsy and in LOTR it always seems more open to the idea of something a little bit more obscure :), thanks again for the reply
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I confess I was prepared not to like this because it has potential to ruin the Tolkien flavor, but it's pretty good. :) I like the humans, and I also like the idea behind the will generation rules, though it will take some play testing to see how powerful it is. If you can keep your wizard alive for 10 turns that's potentially 5 extra Will, which seems pretty powerful. I can also imagine how easy it would be to take Sap Will on the good side, and your 60 point human wizard just took out the Shadowlord... Maybe a list of allowed spells to choose from would be better.

The elves have a storm caller as mentioned, and the easterlings have a war priest. Not sure if you know about the goblin shaman Druzhag. They're all worth a look, and are available from GW online as PDFs in the White Dwarf archives. I think the ones you need are called "Reinforcements" and "In Sauron's Sinister Service".

Edit: you might also look at Kardush the Firecaller, I believe he's also in those PDFs. Personally not my favorite model, but I like his Will regeneration rule.
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:52 pm 
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I nearly forgot I'd made a list with an Easterling War Priest.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:04 pm 
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While the rules look good, I don't think that such Wizards ever existed. After all, the Valar sent only five Wizards/Maiar (including Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast) to Middle Earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:24 pm 
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I actually read somewhere that there were also lesser wizards than the five Maiar wizards sent by the Valar.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:35 pm 
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hi guys, you have been great with the C&C, i personally feel for gaming purposes where it is hard to field a wizard like gandalf a lesser mage would work, i dont want to insult anyone or tolkiens lore but i feel the changes that have been made by GW and the films e.g. adding new characters have only benefitted LOTR in the terms of gaming purposes, also someone as wise as gandalf i think would pass on his knowledge to a young proteige in a hope that if things do turn sour e.g. the dark lord rises again, there is a hope for mankind and middle earth. i also agree with the fact these rules are a bit unbalanced and need tweaking, i only whipped them up at work today :rofl: , so any modifications you would like please do and post your results
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:58 pm 
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If you could use a period or two it would make your posts easier to read.

mauler19 wrote:
also someone as wise as gandalf i think would pass on his knowledge to a young proteige in a hope that if things do turn sour


Definitely not, for a couple of reasons. First, Gandalf wasn't human, he was a spirit in human form. His mission was tough enough given his divine nature (of the 5 sent, only 1 fulfilled his duties), it's not something he could pass on to something as comparatively fragile and easily corruptible as "Men". Second, there's indication any Men were able to wield magic at all, and Gandalf certainly never taught anyone.

I think the profiles could work or be rationalized...maybe a Dunedain met a sympathetic elf, or there were more magic-capable evil humans like the mouth of sauron or something, but not for the reason you've stated.
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:52 pm 
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whafrog. fair enough, i didnt mean to insult or upset people. i personally dont know the LOTR unviverse as well as you, it was simply an idea and the only reason i could think of at the time to justify lesser mages, but your explanation is far greater. also my grammer isnt great and i will work on that, in regards to the grammer please dont percieve me as an idiot :) . thanks for the positive comment about the profiles though 8). As far as your own custom wizard is concerned you may make up any appropriate back story, after all it is an expansive fantasy world that, in my opinion, is and has been open to creative interpretation multiple times e.g. LOTR battle game,LOTR movies and of course LOTR battle for middle earth etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:17 pm 
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The magic in Middle-Earth is more in items than in "cast" spells. There are lesser magic rings, dwarfs make runes, etc. A 'lesser wizard' may have learned to channel such an item's power.

Gameplay-wise, I have nothing to complain about the stats; they look nicely balanced.

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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:36 pm 
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Ares B, i think you hit the nail on the head, thanks a lot forthe kind words, im really please with the reception so far. thank you all! :D
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:27 pm 
Ringwraith
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mauler19 wrote:
also my grammer isnt great and i will work on that, in regards to the grammer please dont percieve me as an idiot :)


Not at all. :) Nothing to do with that, just a matter of ease of reading. I figure if I want someone to read something, it's up to me to do the work and make it as clear as possible.
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:15 am 
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i completely understand what your saying, and you are right! :-D
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:25 am 
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Although I love your idea, there are some facts I'd like to point out:
As said, fluff wise, your idea is quite far-fetched, but it's way more likely than some 'recent' gw inventions, so... Something that is the most likely is that MoS wasn't the only living black numenorian that has some insight in magic. But human and dwarf mages is something more for warhammer (still, the profiles are very tolkien-like). Still, there are some things about the other profiles that need to be said:
Evil sorcerer:
- From what race is he ? Because orcs, easterlings and uruk-hai already got gw inventions: war priests and shamans
So when it's some sort of black numenorian (as MoS), you'll have to change the basic profile.
- Black dart on 2+ ?
- C3 and W1 are to low, even for an evil creature
In general:
Spells should be slightly more difficult to cast, because, as you said, they're only shadows of their masters/idols.

But really, don't feel dissapointed in any way, the profiles are way closer to tolkien then gw's recent releases (I mean: floi, the spell-casting dwarf ?).

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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:44 am 
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I'll confess that I am not as knowledgeable in Lord of the Rings lore as some of the other members of this site, so I can't really fault you on the issues with the story behind these characters, as I'm not sure of what they all are. However, as an avid gamer who has written a couple of house profiles, I can critique the balance of your stats.

1. The Good Wizard. I think you should change the name to Sage or Seer or something similar, as that is more in line with the magic powers which regular humans wield. As for the rules:
-only the most powerful magical creatures can cast Immobilise efficiently. Casting on a 2+ is unrealistic as not even Gandalf can cast it on that roll, requiring a 3+. As this wizard/sage is a novice, he should need require a 4+ or 5+ in order to cast it.
-As with immobilise, it is overpowered for this novice to be able to use Sorcerous Blast on a 4+ as Gandalf requires a 5+. Therefore the novice should need a 6+ in order to cast it.
-You should change the signature spell to Terrifying Aura, cast on a 3+.
-Bows cost 5 points for Heroes, not 2 points.
-Using a points calculator, his actual cost is more like 50 points, with his special rules.

2. Evil Sorceror. Okay, despite the fact that Orc/Uruk-hai/Goblin shamans and Easterling War Priests exist, not every evil race has access to a magic user (except allied Ringwraith's). Now, onto the rules:
-He needs to have a shoot value if he is able to be equipped with a bow.
-The most powerful dark magic users in existence, save for the Dark Lord Sauron, the Nazgul require a 5+ to use Black Dart. An inferior magic user would probably not even be proficient enough to cast the spell. Even if he could, he would surely require a 6+ to use it. 2+ is just way too overpowered for being able to cast a very powerful attack.
-Sorcerous Blast, he should require a 5+ or 6+ to be able to cast the spell. Reason, see Good Wizard critique.
-The Signature Spell should be changed to a single spell. Drain Courage would be appropriate.

3. Elf Enchanter. Unlike the others I will not critique this one as it is an obsolete profile as the Elven Stormcaller exists, with a more balanced and LotR Lore friendly background.

4. Dwarf Mage. An interesting idea, but he has a few balance issues.
-Blinding light should be cast on a 3+, as I doubt that a Dwarf could rival Gandalf's prowess.
-Sorcerous Blast. Change it to being cast on a 6+
-Signature Spell, change it to a small selection of spells such as Command, Aura of Dismay or Aura of Command.

Also, you should check out the following links as they are useful for seeing how to keep profiles balanced.

-House of Profiles
-Character Points Calculator

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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:59 pm 
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hey guys, this post is heavily outdated please see: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=21100, thank you!
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 Post subject: Re: Generic Wizards in LOTR
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:12 pm 
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oh! and thank you all for the lovely replies, hopefully you will find V4.0 a bit more balanced! THANKS!
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