Ha, I'm not sure about having clout but if in doubt just tell your friends that that's how everyone plays it in the UK, including the guys at GW HQ
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| Heroic actions delcarations http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=31856 |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Heroic actions delcarations |
So I have been reading over the rules regarding how players use heroic actions. Here are the rules in question "If both players wish for Heroes in their forces to attempt Heroic Actions in the same phase, they must take it in turns to nominate a Hero, starting with the player who does not have Priority. Each specifies which Heroic Action is being attempted(and by which Hero) and then expends the Might point from the Hero's store." Now does this mean that the player without priority always has to start with the hero nomination in each phase and that if he neglects to do so he is then unable to counter his opponents actions? Or does it mean that both players must decide whether they intent to call any actions before they nominate any hero to preform that action? The way I see it the first line informs the rest of the paragraph in a if this then this sort of way. So only if both players wish to attempt heroic actions in the same phase then the following manner is employed. This would mean that the players would be free to decide on their intent to call an action in any order. But that they would also need to do so without nominating the hero intended to preform the action or what sort of action it is. Well what do you guys think about this? |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Pretty sure it says that before you nominate heroes, the player without priority declares whether or not he wants any heroics. Then the player with Priority says whether they want any and if they do it goes back to the player without priority. So you always have a chance to counter heroics. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Could you explain your interpretation a bit? |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
A has priority, B does not. At the beginning of each phase, B says whether he wants to use an action or not. Then A says whether he wants to use an action or not. Then, if A said he wants to use an action, B declares if he wants to use an action or not. If both players want to use a heroic action, you then roll off and alternate as you described. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Doesn't that ignore the first line though and force the players do go through that possess even if both players don't wish to attempt heroic actions? |
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| Author: | Galanur [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Easier explained in less words. - player with priority start 1st right? - player without priority can attempt to call an heroic action before the priority player movement so he can move 1st. - player with priority after being called heroic actions, can use same action type to revert to normal priority from the roll off. - if the player without priority dont wanna use any heroic, the game proceed as normal with the priority roll. Basically the player without priority wanna steal the game order of movements, the player with priority will have to call the same heroic to prevent the other doing that. Simple as that. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
I don't see how you could have come to that conclusion Galanur. The rules don't say anything about how they two player have to decide to make a heroic action or that one has to use or lose his ability to do so. |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Pretty sure it's either in the boom or in the FAQs. Go check them. I'm positive that it works exactly (or at least very very close) as I described. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
I don't know what boom is I'm afraid. What is it and how do I find it? I did check the FAQs(1.2) for the main rule book though and I couldn't find anything about this. |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
*Book. My stupid phone changes k to m for some reason. It auto changes like to lime because it's stupid. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Oh, well you had me worried their of a bit thinking I'd been overlooking a whole other there thing. Anyhow I went through pg. 57, where it talks about overall heroic actions, and the only bit that talked about who the player went about it was the paragraph I used as an excerpt. Which left me with stuck on what "If both players wish for Heroes in their forces to attempt Heroic Actions in the same phase" means. From the wording I am inclined to believe its a condition that has to be met before the rest takes effect. So player X would need to either ask if player Y was going to do anything or say he was going to do something. Then let player Y responded with his intentions and only if both player wanted to do heroics then the nominating based on priority would start. Its the same concept as yours Draugluin just not based on priority for who has to start the daisy chain of question and response. |
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| Author: | Jobu [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
The player without priority does NOT lose his ability to call a heroic if he does not call one first. You are confusing the mechanism of resolution when BOTH players call an action with the ABILITY to call an action. IF BOTH players are calling heroics then the player without priority must declare what the first one would be if he/she wins the roll-off. Then the person with priority must declare which hero(and action) will go first if he/she wins the roll off as so on with any other hero. After the winner is declared then, as in the book, the players switch back and forth until no more actions are left. Note that no player can change what the hero is declaring after the die has been rolled. It is supposed to be public knowledge who is calling what as well as the order. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
You're over-thinking this, worrying excessively over the wording won't get you anywhere. There's very few variables in this: Player without Priority doesn't call anything - Player with priority does - Player without calls a counter-Heroic - Player with priority calls another etc. Or Player without Priority does call a Heroic - Player with priority counters - Player without calls another Heroic - Player with priority calls another counter etc. Or If one side wants to call more than the other: Player A calls one - Player B counters - Player A calls another Or Player A calls one - Player B does nothing. Player A calls another. The reality is that the order they're announced really does not matter and most people just announce what they're going to down at once. It's the roll to decide what action goes first which affects the game, not the order that they're declared. Keep it simple, keep it safe. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Well I was fusing over the exact wording because I needed to prove that another groups interpretation, which forced the player without priority to call all his actions at once and then be countered by the other player or loss the ability to call anything that phase, was incorrect. I still don't have a place I can point to in the book and say "here is were it says that's not how it works" but I was hoping someone would present me with some sort of argument that I could use instead. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
First things first, I think the other group you are talking about sound like a very frustrating group of people who are attempting to bend the specific wording of the rules into some sort of faux advantage. IMO, both the meaning and the intent of the rules are clear and they don't seem at all mutually exclusive to me. Furthermore, I don't see how the wording of the rules supports this other group's interpretation. From the passage you quoted: "If both players wish for Heroes in their forces to attempt Heroic Actions in the same phase, they must take it in turns to nominate a Hero, starting with the player who does not have Priority." So the Player without Priority calls a Heroic Strike somewhere, it now passes to the Player with Priority who calls a Heroic Move, it then passes back to the player without Priority who can then call a counter-Heroic Move, it then passes back etc. That's what 'take it in turns' means, I don't see how this other group could possibly argue that you don't have the opportunity to counter, particularly when using the paragraph that specifically states that they do. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
On the bright side now I have someone with some clout who I can point to and say they disagree. Thanks Doc you've made my job a lot easier. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heroic actions delcarations |
Ha, I'm not sure about having clout but if in doubt just tell your friends that that's how everyone plays it in the UK, including the guys at GW HQ
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