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Do new profiles replace old ones?
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=29782		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Do new profiles replace old ones?
What I mean is:
Could you take Radagast's on sleigh as part of the White council, elrond on a horse in an Erigion and Rivendell list or Legolas with orcrist or Thranduil on horse in lothlorien and mirkwood?

Thanks,
LordElrond
Author:  Alatar of Rhun [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
Yeah all new profile take priority
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
Thanks.
Author:  J.R. [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
What is the source for this ? From what I know, there was a FAQ about this and they said you cant mix profiles.

So Mirkwood and lothlorien (woodland realms) can only have the armoured thranduil with bow, and not the unarmoured or the one on a horse from the mirkwood list.
Author:  Creaky [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
Usually, if an army list has a named hero available, it'll have a profile for him (look at the three Aragorns for Fellowship, Arnor and Gondor, and the fact that Legolas Greenleaf appears in both DoS and Free Peoples woodland elves lists), OR it says something like (may also include hero 'x' from army list 'y') like the White Council does for most of its heroes, or Erebor with Thorin, Balin and Dwalin.

In the case of Leggy with orcrist, for instance, it's likely to be a brand new profile with it's own options (probably called 'Prince of Mirkwood, to differentiate it from the other legolasessess/legoli - what's the sindarin pluralisation for a name? - out there). In that case, he'll only be able to lead a warband from the army list he's in for the BOFA Supplement. No stopping you from taking him as an ally, though.
Author:  rigg1313 [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
Creaky I think you might have missed the point of what LordElrond was trying to find out.

If the profile/character is the same then 'new additions' to the character tend to be just wargear upgrades (i.e. Radagast has his sleigh wargear option in all 3 of the lists he is in, Elrond had his horse added to his Eregion and Rivendell List). Now the new wargear options (a Horse and orcrist) are similar to those above so we should follow The Hobbit profiles to Lord of the Rings profiles precedents of the profile being the same but just 'updated' so that for all intensive purposes it replaces it.

You use Aragorn as an example but that is Aragorn in three different Armies and Scenarios (when he was a ranger, member of the fellowship and King). He was at a different 'power' level in each list. This is also a Lord of the Rings example and not new "The Hobbit" example.

I don't see much chance of Legolas getting a new profile just a wargear upgrade. Because having 2 legolas' in "Thranduil's Halls" would be a bit strange. I'd like a total profile update (3 attacks) for Thranduil but they are unlikely to rewrite it but rather instead give him a mount option.
Author:  Dr Grant [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
It's a complicated question and people had expressed a variety of opinions but we asked GW about this directly before the UK Throne of Skulls this year. It makes a huge difference - after all, if the new Thranduil replaces the old Thranduil then Wood Elf warriors can no longer be upgraded to Mirkwood Guard and people would be turning up to TOS with illegal armies. Thankfully, GW came down on the sensible side of the argument and we included their answers in our community FAQ with the following two questions. In short:

The old profiles and wargear are still valid

You have to use the new/old profiles in the army lists in which they were printed and you can't mix and match.

From our Community FAQ:

Can Gandalf take his Cart or Shadowfax if taken in a White Council Warband alongside Elrond on horse, Radagast on sleigh or any other equipment combination from the Hobbit rulebook?

No. GW Games Development were asked about this and their response was "you use the profile and rules of the hero found in the book you draw your army list from”. This is one of very few of the FAQs in this document that is sanctioned by GW so is also applicable to official Warhammer World events.

Can Gandalf still take his cart if taken in a Fellowship/White Council Warband from the Free Peoples book?

Yes. GW Games Development were asked about this and their response was "you use the profile and rules of the hero found in the book you draw your army list from”. This is one of very few of the FAQs in this document that is sanctioned by GW so is also applicable to official Warhammer World events.
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
So the answer is no in short?
Author:  Dr Grant [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
It depends on which question from your OP you mean:

"Could you take Legolas with orcrist or Thranduil on horse in lothlorien and kirkwood?"
No

"Could you take Elrond on a horse in an Erigion and Rivendell list?"
No

"Could you take Radagast's on sleigh as part of the White council?"
Yes but only in the White Council list from the Hobbit books and alongside the other profiles from the Hobbit book. So no Radagast on Sleigh and Gandalf on cart in the same White Council warband (and remember you can only have one WC warband). You could of course have Radagast on sleigh and Elrond on horse as part of a White Council warband and then Gandalf on cart on his own as part of a Fellowship warband.
Author:  rigg1313 [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
Well whats the deal with LoneyKnights Sbg Army builder? Thats what I was going off.
Elrond can take a horse in rivendell and eregion and radagast a sleigh in his other lists. So thats all wrong then :/ Damn just Damn. That makes everything just worse ahahah
Author:  Alatar of Rhun [ Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
J.R. wrote:
What is the source for this ? From what I know, there was a FAQ about this and they said you cant mix profiles.

So Mirkwood and lothlorien (woodland realms) can only have the armoured thranduil with bow, and not the unarmoured or the one on a horse from the mirkwood list.


My bad :roll: i was under the impression that the new profile took priority over the old but that models were limited to the wargear mentioned in that warband
Author:  Alatar of Rhun [ Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do new profiles replace old ones?
Looks like GW answered this for us in the New DoS erratta


Quote
Note that some of the profiles in The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey™
rules manual will vary from those in the five sourcebooks: Mordor™,
The Fallen Realms, Moria™ & Angmar™, Kingdoms of Men and The Free
Peoples. When picking a force, you should use the rules and points
values featured in The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey™ rules manual
in place of those found in the sourcebooks.

Also in the Hobbit Erratta

Q: Can Gandalf the Grey take his Cart or Shadowfax if taken in a
White Council Warband alongside Elrond on horse, Radagast the
Brown on sleigh or any other equipment combination from The Hobbit:
An Unexpected Journey™ Strategy Battle Game rules manual? (var.)
A: No, models that feature in army lists from the five sourcebooks
can only use options and wargear shown in those books. Models
that feature in army lists from either The Hobbit: An Unexpected
Journey™, The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug™ or The Hobbit:
The Battle of the Five Armies™ can only use options and wargear
shown in the The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey™, The Hobbit: The
Desolation of Smaug™ or The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies™.
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