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| 100% Archer Army? http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=16860 |
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| Author: | Stalker [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 100% Archer Army? |
Rangers of the North, and Riders of Rohan, are two examples of troops whose stock standard profile includes a bow as part of their war gear for their base point cost. Does that mean you could have an Army of Rangers of the North or an Army of Riders of Rohan (or an alliance of both) which would legally break the 1/3 bow limit? Or does this mean that these kinds of troops can only comprise 1/3 of your overall forces (per alliance). Are there any evil troops that fall into this kind of category as well? |
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| Author: | PAMPLEMOUSE [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:29 pm ] |
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i do know that the rangers are alowed to have a 100% bow army. but i have always wondered about the riders so i don't have an answer for them. It would make sense because they are the staple of rohan and may people have purly rider armies but as for in turnaments i don't know. |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Outriders are hero's so they don't count for bow limit and for every ranger of the north in your army you may have 4 rangers. It doesn't make any sense if there are allies. |
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| Author: | PAMPLEMOUSE [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:35 pm ] |
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rangers of the north are also heros so the same rules apply to them as it does for out riders. i'm still wondering about the standered riders. |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
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Standard riders are bound too the bow limit but a special rule in LOME says you may 4 rangers for 1 ranger of the north. |
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| Author: | Stalker [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Are Outriders something different? I'm talking about the Riders of Rohan from the Two Towers rulebook. When did they all become heroes? If you had an entire Mounted Cavalry Army of Riders of Rohan, you would have a 100% Archer Troop type. Is this legal? |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:41 pm ] |
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No normal riders are bound to bow limit but since the 2 towers journeybook there are rohan outriders heros of 10 points with a bow. |
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| Author: | Stalker [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:00 pm ] |
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Ok, let me remove all distractions from my original question. Let's look at the Orc Trackers. Standard War Gear includes an Orc Bow. Could you have an entire army of Orc Trackers? This would essentially be a 100% archer army. |
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| Author: | PAMPLEMOUSE [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:09 pm ] |
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no you can't have an entire army of orc trackers or standered units carying a bow |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:10 pm ] |
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No only 1/3 of your WARRIORS may have a bow so for each orc tracker you must have 2 other warriors. |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Stalker wrote: Ok, let me remove all distractions from my original question.
Let's look at the Orc Trackers. Standard War Gear includes an Orc Bow. Could you have an entire army of Orc Trackers? This would essentially be a 100% archer army. How is it hard to figure out? You may only select up to a third of your Warrior (that is, NOT Heroes) models to be bow-armed. So no, you cannot have an army of just Orc Trackers. As for Riders of Rohan, you could have an army with just them in it, but for tournaments you can only shoot with the ones carrying their bows in their hands. |
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| Author: | PAMPLEMOUSE [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:24 pm ] |
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thank you lord Hurin that's basicly what i thought |
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| Author: | Stalker [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:29 pm ] |
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I do understand the concept. The question arises from the most recent game I played, against an army from the Grey Company. (500 pt game) He had Aragorn on Horse, and about 20 or 22 rangers, all with bows. I think 2 or 3 of them were the models with a spear in hand that had a point of M/W/F, because he used his Fate on these to save the first wound. This question, though, is out of curiousity's sake: I only have the Two Towers Rulebook with the original entry for Riders of Rohan. What makes a troop unit like the Outrider a Hero? (Does it say specifically in the profile Hero or Warrior?) (Does the presence of M/W/F score make the troop unit a Hero?) |
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| Author: | PAMPLEMOUSE [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
m/w/f make the unit a hero and they will be in the hero section of the rule book |
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| Author: | Stalker [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm confused because all these models are listed under warriors on the Games-Workshop site (under Gondor and Arnor > Warriors): Rangers of Middle-Earth Dunedain of the North Grey Company Faramir's Rangers (Anything with a "Rangers" listing I could find, they're all listed in the warriors section, not the Heroes and Command section.) So what makes the Grey Company or Rangers of the North or Rohan Outriders Heroes? |
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| Author: | The_Dragon_of_Moria [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:36 pm ] |
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Dunedain/Rangers of the North of the north count as heroes and so do Outriders Dunedain -F----S-D-A-W-C----M/W/F 4/3+-4-4-1-1--5-----1-1-1 Outriders have a point of fate and cost 15pts each. So by SBG terms they are heroes-so no bow limit. However Rangers of Middle-Earth, Faramirs Rangers and Rangers of Arnor are not heroes so they do still follow the bow limit, otherwise they are not SBG legal |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:55 am ] |
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The word Ranger is unfortunately used for different troops, but is qualified: Ranger of the North is a hero. He has MWF and costs a lot. They are similar to Dunedain who are also heroes. Ranger of Arnor (the north kingdom) is not a hero. They have no MWF. Ranger of Gondor is also not a hero for the same reason. Rangers of Gondor are always limited by the 33% rule. They might all carry a bow, but only the ones posed as shooting are allowed to use it. Rangers of Arnor can be used in two ways: 1) If you structure your army "normally", ie: a hero or two and a pile of warriors, only 33% of the warriors can have/use bows. 2) If you make sure your army has at least 1 Ranger of the North (or Dunedain) per 4 Rangers of Arnor, then all your warriors can have/use bows. This kind of works because the RotN cost 3x a normal RoA, so your numbers suffer. BTW, other heroes like Aragorn don't count as RotN, so if your friend had 20 rangerish models and all had bows, then at least 5 of these would have had to have been either RotN or Dunedain. Riders of Rohan all have bows, but like Rangers of Gondor only 33% can have/use them. Outriders are a different model, nominally a hero because they have a point of Fate. Because they fall into the hero class, technically you aren't limited by the 33% rule (which only applies to warriors). IMHO, it's a cheesy thing to do, but... Don't worry about where the models are listed on the website. You'll need to check the rules (the Ruin of Arnor sourcebook for rangers) to get the full picture. |
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| Author: | edonil [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The organization of the website more accurately reflects WOTR than the SBG, so you won't want to rely on that for determining if something's a Hero or not |
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| Author: | Jayha85 [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:35 pm ] |
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Maybe it's just me because I've only recently started reading through my friend Bairchoro's copies of SBG books, but doesn't this rule seem a little silly? Whafrog "Riders of Rohan all have bows, but like Rangers of Gondor only 33% can have/use them." So even though all of them HAVE bows for some reason only 1/3 can use them? If they're in a situation where they could take a long range shot at some bad guys why wouldn't they? Would the commanders really say "Ok Harvery, Bob, and Tudrussle you guys can shoot your bows, but you other 6 blokes can't because we're at our limit. Sorry Jimmy maybe next time." A dumb example I know I'm just having a hard time getting my head around this one. |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:54 am ] |
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Stalker, I'd say it would be advantageous to either buy the new rules or at least borrow a copy. The Two Towers ruleset is 6 years out of date, and much has changed since then. Grey Company have a special army rule that allows all their models to have bows, but at the cost of including more Heroes than one normally would. These Heroes aren't much more than basic warriors with 1 Might, Will and Fate so it isn't a huge advantage. Jayha85, the 33% bow rule is simply a balancing factor in the rules. It was put in place after TTT came out, so the Riders' wargear was already established. It's best to just think that a Rider of Rohan who isn't holding his bow in hand doesn't have one at all. |
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