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The elven glaive thingy...?
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=16214		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Nurin [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  The elven glaive thingy...?
Right, things changes rapidly when you're not looking. When we quit LotR SBG some year ago, an elven glaive could be used either as a 1h or a 2h weapon, chosen before rolling to fight.

Then I read through the weapons when I had the rulebook on my hand, but I didn't check the important details too well...

Did they give +1 fighting value to the character using it, or +1 on the dice rolls in resolving who wins the fight? o.O
Author:  imrail [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
+1 to the dicerolls of you use it as a 2h weapon.

The +1 F. is only in WotR
Author:  Nurin [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah I just noticed, glaives are for WotR whilst in SBG they've got Elven Blades.

Now that brings me to a new question (lol, I got many of those o.O)

What's the point of having an elven blade on a mounted model, as mounted models can't use 2h weapons (I think?). Besides they've got shields aswell, and you can't use shields and 2h weapons... So... uh... yeah, whut ze 'ey?
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:48 am ]
Post subject: 
In WotR I'm pretty sure you may use 2H weapons mounted and there's a special note about it in the wargear section. I'll try to check later and post it.
Author:  Durin's Folk [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Elven blades can be used as both a one handed weapon and a two handed weapon in SBG. If the model is carring a shiled he or she may not use the elven blade as a two handed weapon.
Author:  Nurin [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah but in the SBG it says also that you can't use 2h weapons whilst mounted..
Author:  gaarew [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Which means it must be used one-handed whilst the wielder is on his horse, but you have the option of using it two-handed if he dismounts or the horse is killed.
Author:  Nurin [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh well.. I suppose that uh... there's some kind of wierd reason for an elf to dissmount, toss away his shield, and then start fighting with it as a 2h. =o
Author:  gaarew [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes - a higher chance of killing your opponent when you win a fight...
Author:  Nurin [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, yes.. Except you lose 1 point of defense and get the penalty when resolving the fight. =o
Author:  gaarew [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
That would be why it is an option, and not a compulsory ruling.

It is up to the individual player to decide whether the benefits outweigh the penalties.
Author:  Nurin [ Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 
*shrugs*

True... But still... Feels somewhat wierd that in the first place giving mounted elves a weapon that can be used as a 2h, and then give them shields aswell...... Bleh, I should just start playing dwarves, much easier than wierd elf-rules... xD
Author:  Durin's Folk [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, Dwarves ar better :D
Author:  aelfwine [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Of course what mildly annoys me is that this:
http://medieval.ucdavis.edu/20C/glaive.gif
is a glaive.

And this:
http://www.yourprops.com/norm-43616af18 ... ings+(2001).jpeg
is a two handed Elven sword.

The confusion...confuses me.

:)

Gavin
Author:  Nurin [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well... I've always thought of glaives as short spears with long sword-like blades...
Author:  aelfwine [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nurin wrote:
Well... I've always thought of glaives as short spears with long sword-like blades...


Glaives, Guisarms, Bills and so forth are generally the same length as your average spear: about man high with a pointy thing on the end. There are short stabbing spears (like the Zulu Iklwa), but those were wielded one handed.

This is just GW being GW.

Gavin
Author:  Nurin [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Zulu whutnows?

Isn't a "bill" abit like a hallberd with a straight axe-blade?
Never heard of a "Guisarm"
But a Glaive, I think is: 2/3 shaft 1/3 blade, the blade being shaped somewhat like a scimtar.

The Zulu Iklwa thingy, is that something the length of a Pilum or?
Author:  aelfwine [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
The link above illustrates the general sizes of the things.

(and yes the Zulu stabbing spear is the same sort of thing as a Pilum - only shorter.)

The thing about the time period when these things were being used was a time of constant change. Lots of innovation and an arms race between armour types and weapons. So you can have "bills" which looked like all sorts of things, halberds which had a variety of different styles and so forth. So the glaives and whatnot I've seen might not be the same as the glaives you've seen.

But by and large, a glaive is a spear-type thing about 5 or 6 feet long and you use it for stabbing someone who is bothering you. What a glaive is not, however, is a two handed katana thing.

Confusingly, the High Elven spears we see in the movies seem to be closer to Naginatas. (Making the Noldor armed like some sort of ancient Greek Samurai was a rather well done piece of imagining)

Which all beggars the question: why couldn't GW have called the things "two handed Elven blades" which they'd used in the SBG for years without confusing anyone, or even grabbing an Elvish word for the things.

Gavin
Author:  Nurin [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, they didn't really make it easy for us 1000 or more years later to know which is what and what is which...
Author:  imrail [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's what confused me in the beginning also..
But GW just had to use some fancy name for the swords.
And Glaive sounded pretty good.
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