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Lance question help
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=28987		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Lance question help
Every time I finally ask about this and get the answer, I forget before I actually use a model with it.

So.....Lances...

Imagine Boromir on horse with lance.

He charges a Feral uruk Hai (defense 5). So when rolling to wound, does he need 4s?

Also, say he charges a defense 4 or defense 6 character...what does he need then?
Author:  JamesR [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
Yes you need 4's.
Lances simply add +1 to your to wound roll like a 2h weapon
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
So taking it against elves with 3 or 4 defense is virtually pointless?? Thats the way I see it.
Author:  JamesR [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
So taking it against elves with 3 or 4 defense is virtually pointless?? Thats the way I see it.


No. Lol I really dont understand why you're so stuck on it impacting your strength value on the chart. It doesn't.

Ok look at your To Wound chart. If you strike normally (with his sword) Boromir needs 4's to wound a D3 or 4 Elf. With a lance he still needs 4's, however he adds +1 to his dice results so if you roll a 3 it counts as a 4.

Let me see if this example clears it up for you at all (because I think it better demonstrates how lances do and do not work).

Instead of Boromir lets imagine its a Mounted Mahud king, so Strength 5, and he takes a lance. Against that D3 elf he now needs to roll 2+ (which is below anything listed on the "To Wound" Chart) as the lance gives +1 to his dice rolls (it does not effect the chart in any way, you still compare S5 to D3).

So you look at the chart S5 v D3 means you need 3's to wound; however the Lance acts the same as a point of might does in modifying to wound rolls for each die you roll. Meaning all those 2's you rolled count as 3's. All the 3's you roll count as 4's, all the 4's you rolled count as 5's, and all the 5's and 6's you roll count as 6's.

I hope that makes sense
Author:  Hodush [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
No, you are thinking of it wrong. Just think of it as a free might point when you are trying to wound. It is completely separate from the to wound score required. You are placing the blame on the Lance, when you should be putting it on the characters strength value.

The score you need to get is dependent on STR/DEF of course. So Boromir vs Feral is less efficient than a S3 or S5 person, as your S4 doesn't change the required result. Lances always help to change the result, so they are more efficient.

It might be helpful if you think of it this way:
Boromir will wound a D3/4 elf on a 4, always. You MUST see a 4 or higher on the dice to get that wound.
If you only roll a 3, you can use might to boost it of course. You should change the dice from a 3, to a 4, physically do it. Nobody does it because we can all add, and it takes less time. If Boromir had a 2H sword, it would be the same thing, except not using the might, so again you SHOULD physically change the dice - that is the clear and correct way to play. The lance is the same thing again, change the dice.
Now I know you know the game, so it is probably coming across as very simplistic or rude, but I can't think of any other way to express what you are misinterpreting.

So what is achieved by using the lance? You ALWAYS gain a 1 in 6 better chance to wound, no matter who you are facing. Alternatively, using a higher strength character, you only gain the same 1 in 6 chance (from changing the required to wound roll) every time you face an opponent with +/- 2 Defence.
Now technically, this is not entirely correct, as it might only take +/- 1 to result in the required roll being changed, but it IS true if you want to GUARANTEE a better chance of wounding any model in the entire range.

Yes, you only get the lance bonus when you charge, but as you have to be mounted to have a lance, this implies that you always want to be charging anyway, and are willing to spend might points on a heroic move.

Lances are excellent value these days. Under the old rules, models that did not have swords on the profiles were forced to used "daggers" if they didn't charge while holding a lance, putting them at -1 to win the fight. That rule doesn't apply now as everyone has hand weapons, so they are well worthwhile for both troops and heroes.

So to come full circle again:
vs D4 He needs 4's, but all rolls of 3 are changed to 4's
vs D6 He needs 5's, but all rolls of 4 are changed to 5's
Ferals He needs 5's, but all rolls of 4 are changed to 5's
without lance, needs 5's, has to roll a 5 or 6.
Treat the Lance or 2H Weapon as a free might point in the to wound roll.
Lances are always beneficial (if you charge), extra strength is not.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
Thank you guys so much. For some reason, this has impacted my mind out of all things. Lol. Ok. Now I have a better idea for my Knights of Gondor, Yazneg, and Boromir.
Author:  Major_Tom [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
Also its quite handy against high defence models as strength 3 vs defence 8 would need 6/4 but instead needs 5/3 which is much easier to hit
Author:  Knife in the Dark [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
Good input guys. Couldn't say anything mor clear. I will add take a lance whenever you can. With heros it's a great thing when charging and can really make heroic combats more efficient and deadly.
Author:  Hodush [ Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lance question help
Excellent point major Tom, I had forgotten that. That ringwraith is in a lot more trouble vs a single knight of Minas Tirith now.
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