Will do so when I collect the lot. First the auction has to clear (ended yesterday), then payment... I can pick up the goodies 17/5. Counting down
So, what army / fraction should I collect, starting with what I am about to receive?
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| Large collection but zero experience http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25867 |
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| Author: | Da Great MC [ Wed May 08, 2013 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Large collection but zero experience |
Hi, a few months ago I bought the Escape from Goblin Town starter box. I've read the small rulebook and most of it makes sense. I've played Mordheim and WFB for years, so I have enough experience regarding both skirmish and larger battle games, but I have never played LotR or The Hobbit. A fantasy store had to close and all of the LotR stuff went into an auction which I managed to win. So I have a large collection, but I'm clueless where to start. My question for the experienced LotR gamers: can you help me forming an coherent warband/army out of what I own? What do I need to buy / trade for? Books I have: Mordor War Of The Ring: Battlehosts Fellowship Of The Ring: Journeybook Siege Of Gondor Ruins Of Arnor A Shadow In The East Battle Of Pelennor Fields Scourging Of The Shire Return Of The King (Best Of White Dwarf) Khazad-dûm Harad LotR Collectors Guide Boxed sets: Ruins Of Middle-Earth 3x Ruins Of Osgiliath 2x Ambush At Amon Hen 2x Scourging Of The Shire Fog On Barrow Downs Mordor Troll Mordor Orcs Mordor War Catapult 2x Wildmen Of Druadan Morannon Orc Commander Black Guard Of Barad-dûr Commanders 2x Isenguard Uruk-hai Commanders Uruk-Hai Scouts 3x Morgul Knights 6x Knights of Dol Amroth 2x Galadhrim Knights 3x Army Of The Dead Warriors Of Rohan 2x Warriors Of The Last Alliance 2x Warriors Of Minas Tirith Wood Elf Warriors Guardians Of The Shire Blisters: 2x Khandish Warriors 2x Serpent Guard 2x Mordor Uruk-hai Mordor Orc Captain Mordor Orc Command Golfimbul 2x Gondor Bowmen 3x Uruk-hai w/ Crossbows Uruk-hai Berserkers 2x Feral Uruk-hai Castellans Of Dol Guldur Giant Spiders Giant Bats 2x Wildmen Of Dunland 3x Rohan Outriders Rohan Captain (ft & mtd) 5x Haradrim Raiders Haradrin Horseman Champion Haradrin Command Gandalf The Grey 2x Mahud Raiders Mahud Warriors w/ Blowpipes Shagrat Warleader Dalamyr Fleetmaster Of Umbar Hasharii Wild Warg Chieftain Dead Marsh Spectres Arnor Captain & Standard Bearer Morannon Orcs Morannon Orc Captains Morgul Stalkers Black Numenor Warriors Easterling Command Watchers Of Karna !!! Not looking to trade or sell (yet). Just asking advice on how to build an army from what I have !!! |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Wed May 08, 2013 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
Sounds like a significant haul that Smaug the dragon would be proud of! For the sake of verisimilitude, it would be great to see an image of the lot? |
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| Author: | Da Great MC [ Wed May 08, 2013 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
Will do so when I collect the lot. First the auction has to clear (ended yesterday), then payment... I can pick up the goodies 17/5. Counting down So, what army / fraction should I collect, starting with what I am about to receive? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed May 08, 2013 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
All those old sourcebooks are out of date, unfortunately, but you can certainly still have fun with them, at least for learning. The answer to which army you "should" get is up to you. Most people base their decision on aesthetics or theme. There are quite a few games where the legitimate answer is "not those, they suck", or "definitely these, they rock", but for LotR SBG this is not really the case. Yes, there are some armies that are less optimal, and some that are easier to play (at least for learning), but you can have fun with a huge variety of combinations. In any case, it looks like you have a decent start for anything related to Mordor or Gondor. |
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| Author: | Da Great MC [ Wed May 08, 2013 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
whafrog wrote: All those old sourcebooks are out of date, unfortunately, but you can certainly still have fun with them, at least for learning. Aaah, that's why they went so cheap!! I hope the Mordor book is still up to date for that fraction? whafrog wrote: In any case, it looks like you have a decent start for anything related to Mordor or Gondor. Cool, that's the kind of answer I was looking for. What are "must have" units for Mordor or Gondor that I should try to get my hands on? Not aiming to take this too serious 'competition-wise' but I'd rather start out with some decent units
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Wed May 08, 2013 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
If I was in your situation, I would enjoy putting together a wide and varied collection of miniatures, being in effect able to field a variety of armies with a with allied contingents(E.G keep the lot!). |
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| Author: | Hodush [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
For Isengard: You have got about 300 pts for a scout army if you take the wildmen, uruk scouts, uruk commanders and some orcs. You should have a good ratio of archers there too but would just be looking to add some harder hitting troops or hero like warg riders or Saruman. The beserkers/crossbow could go ok, just is more themed towards a non scout army. I would add in the beserkers. For Mordor: Again another pretty well balanced list, about 500 points or more. Shagrat, troll, captains, orcs, mordor uruks. Morgul knights I'm not sure about what lists they are used with, but should do a good job. Morgul stalkers are also a nice pick up as far as I'm concerned. What you'd be looking to pick up here are probably ringwraiths, maybe gothmog and possibly some orc trackers. This pretty much depends on what amount of pts you'd have. Its got a very solid core and should be able to go toe to toe or better with other elite troops but doesn't have a lot to deal with heroes. I think a Shaman or 2 would also be good to have. Dol Guldur: You have the makings of a list here. I don't have the book for this so can't help out, but again you'd only be looking to add a hero as you have the spiders, bats, castellans, orcs, spectres. Harad: You have a few good elite things here but not much backbone. Pick up some Harad warriors or a mumak and it makes its own list otherwise combine it with your Mordor force and you would have a pretty good army needing just the hero (though you already have one on horseback). Its a little soft at the moment though so it might hit hard but wouldn't take much to break it. You would use the black numenoreans, serpent guard, mahud, khandish troops etc with this army. It would be your choice what you want to make out of this - you can go pure harad pretty easy, harad/umbar/khand or harad/easterling which would give you some stronger core infantry. Gondor: You have all the core troops/allies you need but you would need to choose what theme you like to go down in order to get the rest. You have aragorn & gandalf, you might think about getting boromir and some captains. You are missing the elite sections for this army really but that could be filled by army of the dead. I'm not really a fan of citadel guard but most people will get them because they have better shoot value and decent defence, but its a fair investment of $$ when you already have troops with bows, which is why you need to decide what you want. Similarly if you wanted to add fiefdoms, you are looking at a significant investment. I would just got for a bulked out army of infantry and a few heros (boromir, aragorn) along with banners and captains as you should be able to outlast a lot of things. Gondor doesn't have a lot to deal with elites or heroes other than by charging into melee, so you'd need to pick your targets carefully. Probably the simplest choice would be to ally some rohan riders in and pick a rohan leader to go with it or go for prince imrahil and some swan knights who are a little tougher, but more expensive. What are the gondor archers you have in blisters? 2nd age? As for a 2nd age list, you have some warriors, just get a hero like elrond and your set. If you wanted a rivendell force, just take use the high elves, some wood elves, the dunedain from guardains of the shire and add heros again like aragorn, elrond, elladan/elrohir, thranduil and so on, whoever is to your liking. Rohan: add some riders, get some heros. not a huge difference between them so going for whoever you like most should still work out. So to summarise: get some hero troops! There is an army builder around somewhere which will help you put it together but you still need to get the new sourcebooks. |
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| Author: | Da Great MC [ Thu May 09, 2013 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
@ Bilbo: thank you for the tip. I plan on trading away some of the things I have in multiples. For example: I can't imagine ever needing two copies of "Scourging Of The Shire" or "Ambush At Amon Hen"? @ Hodush: This is great advice!! I am currently reading it trough for the third time
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Thu May 09, 2013 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
I can quite see that one only needs so many Frodo of the Nine Fingers on My Little Pony! (Which bizarrely I picked up for £20 at an independant stockist yesterday) the only possible use I can see is for the to be turned into monuments for a post scourging of Shire battlefield, which wouldn't make much sense! |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Thu May 09, 2013 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
Hodush wrote: I'm not really a fan of citadel guard but most people will get them because they have better shoot value and decent defence Citadel Guard don't have a better Shoot value, they have a better Fight value, plus the Bodyguard rule. They can also take a longbow (elf bow equivalent)...maybe that's what you meant. Personally I like Fountain Guard, but they need shields to really shine. I used the shields from Numenorians in the Last Alliance box. |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Thu May 09, 2013 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
The citadel guard are quite effective when used in two ranks with bows to the front, supported by a rear rank of spears. I find that they addition of a few bows really helps their tactical flexibility. I find that they are a good supporting unit, but don't ever put them up against Guards of Barad Dur. Their body guard rule means that they can be used to slow down advancing monsters 1 at a time. The Guards of the Fountain court with shields can be relied upon to hold the line due to their high defense. |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Thu May 09, 2013 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
except that if you charge 1 model into a monster to slow it down, bear in mind the monster is probably gonna throw the citadel guard into your own men. |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Thu May 09, 2013 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
I am glad that that issue has been balanced out by the new monster special rules, as it was all to easy to put the breaks on an enemy Balrog by feeding him a Khazad Guard a turn. This way there is risk from the monster barging through or flinging your own man back at you, which could be pretty disastrous! In saying that, its still worth a go when in a pinch! |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Fri May 10, 2013 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
SouthernDunedain wrote: except that if you charge 1 model into a monster to slow it down, bear in mind the monster is probably gonna throw the citadel guard into your own men. I'm finding this is still a viable tactic, especially if you have a warrior who can shield. The throwing range on average is not that high--around 3-4 inches for trolls, and the odds of survival aren't bad either. Not to mention, if you can get around to the opposite side of the monster from the rest of your warriors, the throwing range starts from there, so it includes the monster's base. For a cave troll, that's ~1.5" already, a mordor troll is ~2.5". You wouldn't do it if all your models are clustered in a big knot or on a line, but since we play with a lot of terrain this usually doesn't happen anyway. It's one of the reasons I like the monster rules so much, they are handy and sometimes very effective, but not overpowered. |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Fri May 10, 2013 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
monsters throw from their base and can throw 360 degrees so that doesnt really work. 3-4 inches? My mordor trolls usually throw at least 6 on average which is usually enough to knock over enemy heroes and banners 
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Fri May 10, 2013 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
I think the monster rules have made them as powerful as you would expect them to be, because they could be slowly neutralised in an unbalanced manner. However, they have a chance at overcoming this, but naturally in a dice game based on probability, there should always be risk, and the consideration on how to act makes the game interesting. |
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| Author: | Thermo [ Fri May 10, 2013 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
edit: sorry, was meant to be a PM! Must have clicked "quote" by accident. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Fri May 10, 2013 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
SouthernDunedain wrote: monsters throw from their base and can throw 360 degrees so that doesnt really work. Yes, 360 degrees, but from the location of the enemy warrior, not any part of the monster's base edge. If that's how people are doing it, no wonder they think it's so powerful. The clue is in step 4 on p63. "All model's passed through (excluding the hurling Monster...)" The only way you will "pass through the hurling Monster" is if you measure from the hurled model's position. If you just measured from the monster's base, this condition would never apply, and they never would have mentioned it. SouthernDunedain wrote: 3-4 inches? My mordor trolls usually throw at least 6 on average which is usually enough to knock over enemy heroes and banners Ah, right you are about the average, but you still have to measure from the hurled model's position, so careful placement can mitigate this effect by dropping 2.5" off the distance. |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Fri May 10, 2013 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
Quote: Q: When a Monster makes a Hurl attack, do you measure the distance thrown from the base of the Monster making the throw or the target modelʼs base? (p63) A: Measure from the Hurling Monsterʼs base. 
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| Author: | Ukfreddybear [ Fri May 10, 2013 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Large collection but zero experience |
I think you measure from the point the two bases touch. In any direction from that single point. It would be a bit cheeky if the monster player picked up the warrior, moved him to the opposite side of the monsters base then threw him the rolled distance. You'd be gaining an extra 40/60mm in that case depending on what monster you are using. |
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