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New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
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Author:  Nepenthe [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Hi all, new guy here with some questions! :)

I'm a veteran(ish) 40k player, dabbled once in a historic wargame campaign, which I liked, but never wanted to strive for historical accuracy... recently decided to expand my hobby horizons a bit, and decided that WotR is the way to go for me.

I'm in a multigenerational gaming group, which tends to mean that we of the older generation have to field the evil armies, so we can let the young uns be heroic... Not that I don't enjoy a bit o' the dark side... :twisted:

So, I'm starting to plot out a Mordor force, and after having seen recently pics of the Morgul Knights, I decided that they are going to form an important part of my force. My local gaming store still had a bunch of metallics of the the now-finecast minis (not a fan), so I took the opportunity to grab a few of them. Essentially I now have a Dark Marshall (to make the knights common or run the battlehost, if need be), Gothmog, Troll Chieftain and two generic Nazguls.

I'm shooting at building a 2k force as my first target, so decided to do a kind of "collection map" and came to something like this on the "they have a nice face" approach (ie. no idea if the units are actually good, they just seem that way on paper)

Epic (585)

Gothmog, Castellan of Morgul
Dark Marshall
Betrayer
Khamul

Common (430)

Morannon Orc Warband (6, shields)
Morgul Knights 3c, banner)
Morgul Knights 3c, banner)

Rare (550)

Troll Chieftain
Black Guard (3c, captain)
Siege Bows (3c)

Battlehost (330)
Gorgoroth Orc Horde (12 companies, captain, taskmaster)

=>1795 pts.

So, now we reach to the point where my newbieness hits. I have no idea if this is a working formation (a bit heavy on characters, I guess). Is the Gorgoroth orc horde the way to go here (it's a lot of common companies that don't help me out with rares), or should I just stuck up on Morannon orcs for mobility etc. How should I run the Morgul Knights? 2 formations, is 3 coy each good, or do I need 4 for the enhanced survivability? With banners? A nazgul in each or just stick to captains with them? For ranged, are the static siege bows enough, or should I grab some, say, arbalesters as allies (it's not that cheesy, I already have a lot of gents of numenorean origin here!) ;)

I'd appreciate any feedback, and sorry about the mess. :)

Edit: WotR added to thread title to be more descriptive...
Author:  Hilbert [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Very nice army for a begginer...
Split the Morannon orc warband totwo formations of three company each... 8)
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Like Hilbert said, it's a good start.

You asked what size formations are best for the Morgul Knights. In my opinion, four is ideal. Also a banner isn't necessary.

I don't think your army is too Hero-heavy at all; in fact, I might include another cheap one. The Mouth of Sauron, perhaps? He'd be pretty thematic.

The last thing I'll advise is some more formations of Morannon Orcs. Six companies per formation is probably a little too much though. Around four is best.
Author:  Nepenthe [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Thanks a lot for the feedback. I'll probably build my core around this, which leaves me extra points for banners, drummers or even 1 formation more morannon orcs etc. if I feel like expanding in that direction. I'll also grab Kardush and see how he does, as well as the Mouth in case we play bigger battles and I get to run 4 formations of Knights in the Battlehost. :)

1995 pts Mordor

Epic (685)

Gothmog, Castellan of Morgul w. tainted palantir

Dark Marshall

Betrayer

Khamul

Tainted

Common (430)

Morannon Orc Warband (3c, shields)

Morannon Orc Warband (3c, shields)

Morgul Knights 4c

Morgul Knights 4c

Rare (550)

Troll Chieftain

Black Guard (3c, captain)

Siege Bows (3 comp)

Battlehosts (330)

Gorgoroth Orc Horde (12 companies, captain, taskmaster)

(I haven't looked at the other battlehosts too much, yet, but it looks like there's a really strong balancing function in the Mordor ones, at least. They use tons of common formations, which you don't get the benefit from for your other army building.)
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Split the siege bows into seperate formations so you can split them up and cover a wider area. Also, unlike heavy infanty, Morannons aren't as bad in large formations but if you spilt your artillery it would be a good idea.
Author:  Hilbert [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
As GothmogTheWerewolf said splitting your siege bows would help you a lot... :-D
As for battlehosts there are some interesting ones you may want to take... 8)
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Such as the Knights of Morgul and the Black Legion.
Author:  Nepenthe [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
That one's got way too many Trolls for me, but I admit it looks pretty cool. :)

I like Gothmog's Morannon Orcs too, but it again boils down to giving a nice bonus to a bunch of common units (for a price) and the robbing me of the ability to field the equivalent amount of rares...
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
If 3 is too many troll then I doubt you have 4 fell beasts for the nazgul battlehost.
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Nepenthe wrote:
That one's got way too many Trolls for me, but I admit it looks pretty cool. :)

I like Gothmog's Morannon Orcs too, but it again boils down to giving a nice bonus to a bunch of common units (for a price) and the robbing me of the ability to field the equivalent amount of rares...

I think you have the right idea, Mordor has an embarrassment of riches in their base list and you have to look hard at what you are giving up.

I only have two small additions to the above advice:
1. I'd put three siege bows as 2+1. IME this has given me the best balance of getting the most benefit out of terrain (which arty should be in if at all possible) and being able to cover multiple approaches.
2. If you are taking normal Orcs, I'd suggest 2HW or perhaps bow but not with shields. Morranans are the guys for higher defense and I'd suggest normal Orcs can add other things. A columned up unit of Orcs w 2HW throws a fair few dice due to mob-rule once it charges and a Nazgul with Pall of Night and Wings of Terror really boosts their performance. You can even smash targets out of defensible terrain with a basic unit like this.
Author:  Nepenthe [ Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Xelee wrote:
Nepenthe wrote:
That one's got way too many Trolls for me, but I admit it looks pretty cool. :)

I like Gothmog's Morannon Orcs too, but it again boils down to giving a nice bonus to a bunch of common units (for a price) and the robbing me of the ability to field the equivalent amount of rares...

I think you have the right idea, Mordor has an embarrassment of riches in their base list and you have to look hard at what you are giving up.

I only have two small additions to the above advice:
1. I'd put three siege bows as 2+1. IME this has given me the best balance of getting the most benefit out of terrain (which arty should be in if at all possible) and being able to cover multiple approaches.
2. If you are taking normal Orcs, I'd suggest 2HW or perhaps bow but not with shields. Morranans are the guys for higher defense and I'd suggest normal Orcs can add other things. A columned up unit of Orcs w 2HW throws a fair few dice due to mob-rule once it charges and a Nazgul with Pall of Night and Wings of Terror really boosts their performance. You can even smash targets out of defensible terrain with a basic unit like this.


OK, I'll have to keep that in mind. One of the reasons I decided to make the horde was not having to make weapons choices. But always good to have alternative ways of assembling the list, have to keep the opponents on their toes! :)

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
If 3 is too many troll then I doubt you have 4 fell beasts for the nazgul battlehost.

Well, I'm not planning on getting that one, either, I don't see the point in using anyone else apart from the Witch King or the Shadow Lord on fellbeasts :)

Thanks for the feedback, again! :)
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
Actuall, the Shadow Lord is one of the worst to take on feel beasts. The Tainted, the Dwimmerliak, the Knight of Umbar and the Betrayer are better :)
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
I'm with you on the Tainted and Dwimmerlaik, but how do you figure the Betrayer is better on a Fell Beast? His ability is one of the ones that effects his whole formation.
Author:  Nepenthe [ Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Actuall, the Shadow Lord is one of the worst to take on feel beasts. The Tainted, the Dwimmerliak, the Knight of Umbar and the Betrayer are better :)

I dunno, on paper at least it looks like the relative immunity to missile fire would improve the solo Nazgul's survivability to a major degree. Can't see any advantage in using the Betrayer or Knight of Umbar outside formations, but I'll be happy to do some testing if/when I get some fell beasts.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New guy starting Mordor [WotR]
I did not mean that the Knight of Umbar and the Betrayer are better as Winged Nazgul than they are as Ringwraiths, I meant they are are better as Winged Nazgul than the Shadow Lord is.

Nepenthe, if you play a fell beast well it will survive anyway. you don't just send it forward on its own you keep it behind a screen, you use magic to destry enemies and you can take advantage of fly and ATD to hop in front of your formation, cast spells and then hop back to safety again. This time they will survive and you won't waste a special rule.

Furthermore, the Betrayer and the Knnight of Umbar aren't the best Winged Nazgul to take if you only want one or twio, only if your taking the battlehost. The Dwimmerlaik and the Tainted are still good thought. I am sure there are some tactics on the web for using Winged Nazgul if you don't trust my judgement alone, but the Shadow Lord is definately a bad call.

Cheers.
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