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Numenor: Scaling Help
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34600		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  mr. dude [ Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Numenor: Scaling Help
I want to use this space to help me and (hopefully) newer players develop some kind of buying guide. I'm thinking of doing it for all the armies that I have some stuff in, but not too much. The plan would be to scale from 400, 600, and 800 points. Here, I'll think out loud for Numenor and I would love feedback from players who plat the army regularly.

Also, pandemic, so I'm not in a position to buy stuff now and test it, but hopefully in the near future!

What I own now:
Elendil: Horse, Shield
Isildur: Horse, Shield
8 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
15 Warriors of Numenor: Spear, Shield

It comes out to around 550 points, but that's not a very optimized army. I want to keep it as pure Numenor, I don't really want to ally in Rivendell or anyone else, so here's what I'm thinking.

400:
Isildur: The Ring
7 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
7 Warriors of Numenor: Spear + Something*
1 Warrior of Numenor: Banner Bananner Banana

Captain of Numenor: Shield
3 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
3 Warriors of Numenor: Spear + Something*

Total: 398, 23 Models, 1 Banana, 5 Might (including a source of Heroic March)
* Ideally the Something in question maxes out on Bows, so of the 10 Spearmen, 7 have Bows and 3 have Shields, but that means I have to buy a lot of Archers and most of the Spearmen I own would be useless as this scales up. Assuming I max out on Archers, this army requires me to buy 7 Archers, a plain Warrior to turn into a Banner, and something to convert into a Captain.

600 Points:
Elendil: Horse, Shield
9 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
9 Warriors of Numenor: Spear + Something

Isildur: Horse, Shield
6 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
4 Warriors of Numenor: Spear + Something

Total: 600 Points, 30 Models, Potentially 9 Archers
No source of Heroic March in this one, nor any Banners. I'd just have to trust Elendil and Isildur to butcher everything. If I buy the most optimized version of this army, it'd mean 5 more Shields, 9 Archers.


800:
At 800, I'm thinking I want cavalry. If I'm doing pure Numenor, the only source of that is Captains. I could take the 600 point version, top up Isildur's warband, and add two mounted Captains (with Shield, Heavy Armour, Lance). That would give the army 37 models, which isn't great, but 4 of those models are very powerful cavalry. Alternatively:
Elendil: Horse, Shield
9 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
9 Warriors of Numenor: Spear + Something

Isildur: Horse, Shield
7 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
7 Warriors of Numenor: Spear + Something

Captain of Numenor: HA, Horse, Shield, Lance
6 Warriors of Numenor: Shield
6 Warriors of Numenor: Spear + Something

TOTAL: 799, 44 Models, Potentially 13 Archers, 8 Might
Also lacks Banner, and lacks the cavalry that I wanted, but the jump from 3 to 4 isn't amazing anyway. This would require me to buy: 14 Warriors with Shield, 13 Archers, 1 or 2 Captains + Dismounts, and a Banner in case I decide to go with one.

How do we feel about the direction these armies are taking?
Author:  Asgarod [ Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
Perfect topic! =)

Having a Numenor army myself but not having the chance to use it against another player, I too experimented with various army compositions.

Btw: Where did you get Elendil & Isildur on horse? ;)

Reading through your suggestions I wondered why you do not have any bows? Just because you do not have the models?

I would always take a banner - being an elite army without elite armor, I think its too good to not take ;)

Other than that I thought about having a small cavalry force on high point games:
3 Captains of Numenor
50 Base Points + 10 for horse+ 5 shield + 5 lance + 5 heavy armor = 75 points per model * 3 = 225 points

Its a hefty price tag, especially compared to minas tirith knight knights which would cost you only 42 points.

My calculation is of course the most expensive one and could be reduced to a minimum of 180 points but would leave you with still a very expensive cavalry which is now also not so durable.

Alternatively replace one of them with Isildur on horse and be it a warband he leads.
Author:  mr. dude [ Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
Yeah, I started building the army just before the pandemy, never got a chance to try it against anyone. We're in the same boat there.

There's an official GW Isildur model somewhere, you probably have to overpay to get it second-hand, I think I met someone who didn't want theirs and gave me a not-awful price. As for Elendil, I did a head-swap with Aragorn King Elessar. I found shields that look Numenorean and got those for them.

For lack of bows, I think my plan was to buy spears, then plastics, then bows, but that progress got interrupted and now I have 15 spears, 8 shields, and no bows or banners.

Reading it again, I agree with you about 1) banner, always take it, and 2) cavalry. 200+ points for 3 cavalry, however strong they are, and we're always going to max out their gear, just doesn't strike me as worth it for what we get in return. So at 800 points I'd probably go with the last list I put up, but with a banner slotted in. Elendil mounted leading a big warband of infantry, Isildur mounted and doing the same, then a Captain mounted leading more infantry. The dance there becomes how much shooting, and I think I'd go with my first instinct of giving as many spearmen bows as I can.

What's your Numenor army shaping up like, Asgarod?
Author:  Asgarod [ Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
Yeah I heard about the official mounted Isildur model but never saw a real one or an offer for it. But yeah, if i really want it, there are alternative models for it ;)

Giving your spearman also bows makes sense =)

Of course the cavalry option is pretty expensive. If its worth it... I do not know^^ Since i have not yet played a real game, I am not yet able to evaluate the real use of most things. Just from reading through here and a lot of blogs, it seemed like having fast units is nearly a must have. And while its possible to mount Elendil and Isildur, I thought letting them move around on their own, away and ahead of their armies, poses too much danger.

Currently I have:
-Elendil, Isildur (both having a shield)
-1 original warrior with sword and shield as Captain
-1 Davale captain with sword and shield
-3 original warriors with bow
-3 original warriors with spears and shields
-12 original warriors with sword and shield
-1 Davale bannerman
-7 Davale warriors with bow
-7 Davale warriors with spear and shield
-8 Davale warriors with sword and shield

13 Davale miniatures still need to be painted.
And I am not planning on adding anything else in the near future and so currently I can reach 848 points when everythign is fully maxed out equipment wise.
Author:  mr. dude [ Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
I've never played Numenor, but I have played a lot with evil armies using big combat heroes. Absolutely, sending your big heroes out on horse ahead of the rest of your army is generally a really good way to get them killed. I use their speed more to move around laterally, so from one side of the battle to the other to attack flanks/exposed heroes/vulnerable key models. They stay in line with my army.

I'm thinking of one time that I didn't do that: my first time using Gulavhar. I got really excited and launched him out to attack the back rank of my opponent's Lothlorien army while my Orcs engaged the front. I didn't notice his Guards of the Galadhrim Court nearby, which matched Gulavhar's FV6. My opponent was now rolling more dice than me at the same FV, we both rolled a 6, I got really lucky and won the tied fight, and Gulavhar proceeded to wreck my opponent's army for the rest of the game. Had that tiebreaker roll gone differently, Gulavhar was going to die on turn 1. It's a balancing act of sending your combat machines to vulnerable positions in the opponent's army without exposing your valuable models.

Archers with spears is definitely something I'm thinking of more seriously now. Once I have the means to do it I'm going for it. They're a really economical way to lengthen your battle line while still having a healthy shooting component.

Asgarod you have enough for a really strong army! You have everything except cavalry, but you do have two Captains (Heroic March yay) so your army can move quickly anyway. Do you have a gaming group once the world opens back up to put all of that to the test?
Author:  Asgarod [ Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
The way you explained it, cavalry heroes make sense ;)

About shooting: Yeah I really wanted to have as much shooting as possible. If need be i could give some spears also bows to increase the number. Sadly Numenor has only normal bows which are not strong - it still has to show if the numbers can negate that problem ^^

I sadly do not yet have a gaming group. In my region i am maybe the only player in circle of 30 km xD
Vienna does not have a playing as far as i know.
There is the "Würfelorden" west of Vienna - i am already in contact with them. A little bit long to drive but if the games are fun it might be worthwhile ;)

Austria sadly does not have a big MESBG scene as far as i know. I hope to attend a tournament at some point and show the glory of Numenor =D
Author:  mr. dude [ Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
That's always tough, when you don't have a gaming group nearby. I had that for a few years, it means a lot of theory and time spent online talking about the game, without ever getting to play.

I wish you the best of luck in finding groups! Have you gone through Facebook's plethora of local MESBG groups? I'd look there, here in the opponent finder, and on Reddit.

As for Numenor's bows not being strong, you're right, but I've always found S2 bows valuable anyway. They're good at influencing how your opponent moves, even if they're not racking up kills.
Author:  Asgarod [ Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
Yeah I will search more openly for other players and groups when the pandemic situation has improved =)

Being able to talk and theorize about MESB here on the forum is already a great improvement =)

You are right - with bows its anyway more about having this threat available and having more the numbers being more important the actual using it ;)
Author:  bruceqn [ Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Numenor: Scaling Help
You might just get your money's worth out of mounted Captains...as expensive as they are.
My opponent fielded a largely mounted Rangers of the North army. With only one Might each, they did Heroic Moves at will, and the rest teamed up to share Heroic Combats: they devastated an army twice their size.
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