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| Black Guard of Barad Dur http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27242 |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Hi. This can just be a general discussion of them, and tactics around them. Im thinking about picking some up to add some flair and power to a boring mordor/whatever army. I personally, would like to pair them with the Easterling pikemen to create a shield wall of mayhem thats near impossible to kill with ease and also strike through opponents front lines. Anyone have tips about them, and also how have you seen them do in actual battle. I'd more than likely take an entire warband of them, led by a more inexpensive hero like Shagrat or something similar. Or just a captain of theirs if need be. One questions I have(and hold off on the buy the books comments, theyre in the mail.....) is I see this sheet right: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... er_Service Then you go to the actual GW website, and on there, they have special rules. So do they or dont they? |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
I'd imagine the special rules on the website are the war of the ring ones. Yeah ignore those for SBG. The stats in the link you posted are the ones you want. Well I run 15 black guard led by 2 captains and Grandad Shagrat and back them up with morannons. The str 5 is a blessing, allows you to chop through anything. I love the captains and if you include a wraith, they become super courageous. The only downside is that orc fury doesnt affect them but  can't have everything.
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Yeah thats a good plan man. Thanks for the tips. Sucks that they dont have those rules. That WOTR stuff tricks me all the time. Do you think the guard is worth their points? |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Yup, I wish they were D7 but yeah I think they are defo worth taking. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Yeah man, I was wondering why they arent with chainmail and shields literally the size of their body. If they were like D7 and 14 points or something it would still be a good troop. Did you ever use a drummer with them? |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Nope because the Orc spears would get left behind. |
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| Author: | Sithious [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
I have not found them to be worth the points. I do have several and played a good size battle with them to give them a real line hold test. The things is, high strength only helps if you win fights, and high D is for those that lose more than a few fights to hold up. That said, I would rather have a High D orc line with a S3 or S4 an cut back on the points or a high S line and shave off the D to give me some points. Shaving off even 1 point to make a S4 would allow you to take another model for every 5 black shields (give or take). and that is one more die in a fight round, one for model on the table. They lose fights as often as any other orc, And with D5-7 is very little difference in these games, if the person is rolling 6's then he is wounding you. So the death rate of these orcs is about the same. in addition You are paying for a better chance to wound those times an orc wins a fight, and getting to roll 4's is nice, but 5's (in most cases) is not bad either with an S4. Again this is all about saving some points to allow me to get orc hordes in. I think the models look cool, and I think people should use them, sparingly just to have them on the table. I think they would have been used more if they had a realistic stat line and lower cost. For this reason, Mordor Uruk-hai and morannon serve the purpose well and better for the points than a equal point army of Black Shields. If you do take them or want to, you are aware of the cost so make it work, find every way to get them to win fights, banners, combo with heroes, support them (which is why you need spare points). If you are going to be facing a heavy bow army (mirkwood will be coming strong this year) then you may want a drum to get in close very fast and not lose expensive models. The rules for Kardush and for the Black Guard captain serve a ringwraith army well, so if you play higher point matches (1000) then they may be worth taking there as the high points are diluted and the rules for the heroes serve the army better. |
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| Author: | Denizen [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
For their points, I'd rather have Feral Uruk-hai actually. S4 with two attacks is much better than S5 with only one. And those models look pretty neat too. This is really the only occasion where I would advice him: a Shade. Breaks the game most of the time when combined with underpriced killing machines like Reavers or Hunter Orcs. But works good with these, a little, overpriced Black Guard. Personally I wouldn't waste points on the Captain. Yes he is nice, but taking an ordinary captain saves you 20 precious points. A possible contignent of (about) 300 points would be: Orc Captain + 12 Black Guard Uruk-hai Shaman + 12 Orc Warriors w/spear |
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| Author: | StewardofGondor [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
I agree with Denizens and Sithious. In a game with lots of 2 Attacks models and F5 their statline isn't brilliant, however they're not bad, I just wouldn't take them in great numbers. @denizens I often wonder why uruk players seem to prefer berserkers over the ferals. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Thanks for all the input guys. It saves me a lot of money to know they arent all that great. I figured if they were D7 it would be nice with elf bows shooting at you but like you guys said, I worried about 1 attack for how man points they are. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
StewardofGondor wrote: @denizens I often wonder why uruk players seem to prefer berserkers over the ferals. Higher D is better against mostly S3 troops, cuts your wound rate in half. LordoftheBrownRing wrote: I figured if they were D7 it would be nice with elf bows shooting at you... D6 and D7 are the same against elf bows. |
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| Author: | StewardofGondor [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Sure, but 3 points more for +1 D? S4 is quite common these days, if you do evil vs evil and good vs good even more. And when -really often- the army includes a shade ( making the extra defence not so valuable ) and sometimes even a SL why should you pick bersy? |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
whafrog wrote: StewardofGondor wrote: @denizens I often wonder why uruk players seem to prefer berserkers over the ferals. Higher D is better against mostly S3 troops, cuts your wound rate in half. LordoftheBrownRing wrote: I figured if they were D7 it would be nice with elf bows shooting at you... D6 and D7 are the same against elf bows. Oops meant to include Elven blades and spears in that comment too lol. |
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| Author: | Maloric [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
On the note of them losing fights, wouldn't pairing a block of Black Guard with the Dark Marshal help solve that what with his wide banner range? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
StewardofGondor wrote: Sure, but 3 points more for +1 D? You also get a 2H weapon, and higher Courage...not that Ferals are cowardly, but it all adds up. StewardofGondor wrote: S4 is quite common these days, if you do evil vs evil and good vs good even more. S4 is not common at all if you play good vs evil, which we do exclusively. A couple of Rohan and some dwarves. Basically, if you don't want the 2H option, and you're facing an army of Helmingas, and you don't have to face somebody's Aura of Dismay backed by Galadriel in Terror mode, then Ferals are better. And besides all the above, I prefer the berzerker scupts. |
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| Author: | StewardofGondor [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Black Guard of Barad Dur |
Khazad guards are not common? One of the most abused troops, now even better with the new rules for the spears! Sure not everyone is fielding khazad but they are quite popular. Yep I would almost never use 2-h weapons, there is no reason to pay for them imho And also Thranduil's Aura of dismay if a powerful weapon, but even with Galadriel ( that I would take in a "normal" army only if she wasn't an indipendent hero ) you're against C4, honestly I wouldn't be scared by that, not with C5 first line However that's only my hopinion  Back in topic, Dark marshal rule is nice, and should help your black guards. Fight 6 is a really cool bonus too. The only problem is its cost ( I'm considering him on a fell beast ), but you're taking more than just his special rule. And he fits very well in the elitè of Barad-Dur |
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