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Uruks killin me constantly!!!
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=24773		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ste271276 [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Hi guys

I've learnt the hard way that my grey company with an elf contingent just cannot stand up to an isengard Uruk force.

I've been beaten three times on the bounce.
Now this could be that I'm a beginner and don't use all my benefits to their full advantage or it could just be that uruks are formidable!

What do you guys find is the best faction to counter the uruks defence????
Author:  SMORG [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
The thing is to remember to use bow fire to target the pikes as much as you can and use your ability to move over terrain witout penalty to try and get into a flanking position.
Author:  imrail [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Try to take out the lighter armored targets, the pikemen as SMORG said, scouts, banners. I you are up against a troll don't fire everything you have in the troll.

What kind of tactics does your uruk opponent use?
Author:  ste271276 [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
500 PTS

Arathorn - 75

Halbarad with Evenstar banner - 125

Elven Twins - 140

Elven Warriors x 7
With Elven Blades
Spears
Elven bows
Heavy armour
Shields 98

Ranger of the North - 26

Rangers of arnor x 4 36

TOTAL 500

It's only a small force but I feel am lacking some heavy type warriors.
The force I fought had lurtz a few bezerkers and captain nothing special but them guys are tough.
Author:  -Bolg- [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
you can't give your elvenwarrioir ererything,
thake more rangers of the north and more rangers of arnor, this is weak because he kills al you warriors and than kills all jour hero's.
ranger of the north costs 1 point less and the rangers of arnor either (or do they all have spears)
Unse this:

twins+ armour
10 elven warriors 4 with bows and spears, 6 with shields (258)

Arathorn
10rangers of arnor+4spears

3rangers of the north

at this points arwen's banner is useless, this list is mutch better, you can form 2 blocks, 1 heavy battle little shooting groop
1heavy shooting/normal fighting block.

what do you think abbout it?
Author:  ste271276 [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Ill give it a shot
Author:  Whicksmick [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
I use the uruks alot, and although you may have found them yet they do have weaknesses, scouts should go down easily with good die rolls, definately kill of the pike men, you don't want to be getting into combat with them backing someone up.

My brother normally gets lucky 6's when shooting my berserker, it seems to happen everytime :( but thats the die for you, I would recommend not going one on one with them, although as long as you roll well you'll beat them.

Ganging up on the warriors always seems to work for my brother as that way your more likely to get higher rolls each combat.

Well that's my advice, can't give any against trolls or feral uruk as I haven't got any yet, but your not against them so no worries there :)
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
-Azog- has a decent starting point for a list, especially dropping the banner for this level of points. I'd suggest though that you work in some Elf Blades as you will find they are very helpful for killing Urks.

Some tactics to consider.

Use early shooting to reduce the numbers of the lowest Defense models.

Keep your own models supported with spears whenever possible or double up on your opponents. Feel free to team up Elves with Rangers to get good spear coverage. You want to win the Fight rolls.

You can use your Elves w/ Shields to help hold up Uruks in one fight until more models can arrive to help. Declare shielding to get the extra die and you'll have good odds of winning the Fight roll. If you did loose the high Defense could still protect you.

Have some Elf Blades in the mix. Use other models to win the Fight but you want that +1 from the Blade to cut thru the armor.

If you are playing a scenario with goals, keep your focus on the goal and NOT on killing the enemy.

If you are trying to kill the enemy, then focus on getting them to the breaking point and then tie up the Heroes so they can't call Stand Fast. Use Heroic Move if needed and get each enemy Hero in a combat before they can move. Don't charge any normal troops (but set up defensively to cover the ones that pass their Courage test). You will often find a large percentage of the troops will run away during the Courage test making your life much easier. You won't typically suffer this as bad. So they are trying to fight you to the last model. You are just fighting them to break.

I play Wood Elves (Defense 3) and have a very good win ratio against heavily armored Uruk Hai and Morannon Orc forces. I lost several games learning how to use them but am now very confident on the board. If you loose a Fight roll with D3 you're pretty much loosing a model (you experience this with your Rangers already) so it becomes critical to control the flow of battle as much as possible. Having a great eye to Zone of Control management, use of Heroic Move when needed and Heroic Combat as the opportunity arises. REALLY watch how your opponent is moving their models and picking their fights. This is key no matter which army you play or play against. And remain flexible during the game.
Author:  whafrog [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Agree with the other points, your original force is far too small. And beowulf is the wood elf master :) Also, I think by giving your original elves all that equipment they can't make the best of it. If you have a shield you can't benefit from it (ie, +1D) if you also have a bow, except that you can shield. This is why the stat line for Lurtz doesn't reflect his shield.

Minor point: use your rangers to target the front line. Their S2 bows have the same odds of killing D5 as D6, so the fewer shielded uruks that survive will make melee combat easier. Use your elf bows to target pikes since their S3 bows are twice as likely to kill D5 as D6. This leads to the bigger point that you always want to be thinking how to maximize your odds in a situation, whether that means shielding, or getting enough spears in place, or picking which point in cramped terrain to hold.

You might also consider skipping the Twins at this point level, and just take a basic captain, or someone like Erestor. Then you can max your warbands.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
whafrog wrote:
Minor point: use your rangers to target the front line. Their S2 bows have the same odds of killing D5 as D6, so the fewer shielded uruks that survive will make melee combat easier. Use your elf bows to target pikes since their S3 bows are twice as likely to kill D5 as D6.


That's a MAJOR point!!! I hadn't played human bows in an eternity and forgot about the difference to wound. Great job pointing it out. 8) It's tips like that which combine to make the difference on the table.

I've not used the Twins myself but have seen them played with success at lower point ranges like this but the player was really aggressive in using them with some Elves and Heroic Combat calls. It's probably a play style detail though and early on it's usually better to have more models.
Author:  -Bolg- [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
the twins at thesepoints ar really good, they are as many points as golfrindel, and mutch better. they are with two and there are almost no heroes who are better for that pointcost
bows ar really importent D5 or 6, will make big diffrence.
but i think you must play a game
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Azog's list looks like a perfect anti-uruk force in my opinion. If you need to beef it up to 600 or 700 i'd look into another elf warband led by Arwen or a stormcaller, they can mess up uruk formations really well and the chances are your opponents only heroes will be uruk captains, meaning their ability to resist spells is low.
Author:  simmuskhan [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
It also depends a lot on your battlefield. Are you playing with lots of scenery as recommended or just a few token pieces? That can make a massive difference in these types of armies.

Are you playing scenarios or just death matches?
Author:  ste271276 [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Weve played the scenario where the good just has to get off the other side of the board and the enemy cant be broken..... I started ona hill at one side uruks on the other board edge first 4 or so turns where them coming towards me which I tried picking them off but had no luk hardly at all!
Author:  simmuskhan [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
And what about scenery?
Author:  ste271276 [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
open plain
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
ste271276 wrote:
open plain


Open plain basically translates into insta-wins for formation reliant armies like uruk hai. Obviously you can beat them without terrain but, especially when playing elves vs uruks, terrain is an essential part of how the game works. INSIST on using terrain in your next game, tell your opponent about how the rules are designed towards terrain if he refuses (do NOT use forts and castles though, they should not be used in regular games). Do this and use the new and improved list and you should notice a difference!
Author:  whafrog [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Agree about the terrain, the game rules suggest 1/3rd to 1/2 of the board be covered in terrain of some kind. Not only are the rules designed around this, it makes the game far more interesting.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
If you played against me you wouldn't face any uruk-hai. :razz:

I think it has been said before, but archery is not best against the heavily armourde high strength Uruk-hai in the new rules.
Author:  Thermo [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uruks killin me constantly!!!
Don't give this guy any tips, I'll have to play against him soon!
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