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500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21180		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  strodemeister [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
Hi there.

A friend of mine and I have just started playing. We are building one evil and one good army of 500 pts each. The purpose of my two armies are that they can be played against eachother, and that they can be a decent opponent for his Isengard and Gondor.

I have scrolled through a lot of different forums and come up with these two armies;

Good:

(70) Rúmil
(75) Haldir, with armour
(76) 8 Wood Elf with Elf Bows, 4 take Spears
(64) 8 Wood Elf Warriors with Spears
(72) 8 Wood Elf Warriors with Throwing Daggers
(60) 6 Galadhrim Warriors with Spears and Shields
(50) 5 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf Bows
(36) 4 Galadhrim Warriors with Elf Blades
(503)

Should I add some cavalry to this?


Evil:

(135) Khamûl, on Armoured Horse
(100) Amdûr
(64) 8 Easterling Warriors with Shields
(64) 8 Easterling Warriors with Bow
(80) 8 Easterling Warriors with Spears and Shields
(54) 6 Mordor Uruk-Hai with Two-Handed Weapons
(497)

Would it be better to swap the Uruk-Hais to Kataphrakts to go with Khamûl?

And would these setups be suited opponents for Isengard and Gondor you think?

We have limited these armies to 500pts for now, but with a possibility to expand later on. For that I have so far had in mind the Dark Marshal and Dark Numenoreans to aid the Easterlings. But I'm saving that for later.. :roll:

Edit:It doesnt have to be all Easterlings or all Galadhrims though. The thing is, I have now one box of Easterling Warriors and one box of Galadhrim Warriors, and was hoping to use them in the different armies. I also have the Dark Marshal, but I rather save him for the Dark Numenoreans idea mentioned..

Hope I could get some opinions on this..

Cheers
Author:  CirionTheStatesman81 [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
Your elf force seems fine, the only 2 things I have gripes with are the spears on the wood elf archers, and the lack of bow for Haldir. If you are using Haldir's standard profile (as opposed to the newer one for Helm's Deep) then he is a good shooting captain, not giving him a bow is wasting his 2 elf bow shots a turn. Criminal! Otherwise I think the list is fine, you might be able to swap Rumil for a standar cap, but either way is cool.

Now, for the Easterlings... Well, first off, if you want the Uruk-Hai, then you need a Hero from the appropriate list. Now, I think you need to pick either Amdur or Khamul and sink the points you would otherwise be spending on the second guy to invest in more Easterlings, or a Hero to lead the Uruk force. But you just need more men, you have a solid core of high D, decent Courage infantry, you just need to expand. Another thing that I would advocate would be a banner to help your small force win more fights! So, I would suggest dropping Khamul/Amdur and the Uruks, for an Easterling Captain and some more foot sloggers and a few Kataphrakts.
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
CirionTheStatesman81 wrote:
Your elf force seems fine, the only 2 things I have gripes with are the spears on the wood elf archers...


It's a good tactic: when there's nothing more to shoot at these guys can do support. Still, the army is 3 points over, so that's probably the first equipment to drop. I agree about the bow for Haldir.

Quote:
Now, I think you need to pick either Amdur or Khamul and sink the points you would otherwise be spending on the second guy to invest in more Easterlings, or a Hero to lead the Uruk force. But you just need more men, you have a solid core of high D, decent Courage infantry, you just need to expand. Another thing that I would advocate would be a banner to help your small force win more fights! So, I would suggest dropping Khamul/Amdur and the Uruks, for an Easterling Captain and some more foot sloggers and a few Kataphrakts.


Amdur is a banner, so rather than add one to a Khamul force, just stick with Amdur. And I agree more troops are needed, 32 average troops aren't going to get very far. One could always take Amdur, a budget wraith with extra might, and extra easterling foot or some cavalry. Or, to include the uruk hai, take the Mouth of Sauron, he's a pretty good spellcaster for the price.
Author:  strodemeister [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
Hi.

Thanks for the replies, appreciate it!

I would like the 4 Wood Elves to have Spears as well, as they can do support if needed. I think that can be an advantage. If I use Haldir with the old profile, does he have the bow as a standard then? I though that if a new profile was released, you had to go for that one..

Another thing is, if I take out one Galadhrim Warrior with Elf Bow, freeing 10 pts there, and since I already have 8 WE with bows, 8 WE with throwing daggers and an additional 4 GW with bows, and adding bow to Haldir, I would end up with an army of 498 pts. Would that be a smart move? And if I were to swap Rumil for a standard captain, which captain would be wise to chose, the Galadhrim or the Wood Elf..?

I got the idea of Uruk-Hais aiding the Easterlings from Games-Workshops webpage http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=800009&pIndex=1&aId=4400008&multiPageMode=true&start=2. I thought that one needed a Hero for them, but I'm a bit confused since it's set up like this on their site.

Anyway, 32 units is a low number. I would like to stick with Khamûl, so I'll let Amdûr go. It would be cool to have Khamûl riding, and 5 Kataphrakts with him, so what about this:

(135) Khamûl, on Armoured Horse
(95) 5 Easterling Kataphrakts with Banner
(104) 13 Easterling Warriors with Shields
(96) 12 Easterling Warriors with Bow
(70) 7 Easterling Warriors with Spears and Shields
(500) 38 Warriors in total

or

(135) Khamûl, on Armoured Horse
(70) 5 Easterling Kataphrakts
(112) 14 Easterling Warriors with Shields
(96) 12 Easterling Warriors with Bow
(80) 8 Easterling Warriors with Spears and Shields
(493) 40 Warriors in total

What do you think?

Cheers
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
What have you dropped Amdur for, he's more useful to you than Khamul.
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
strodemeister wrote:
If I use Haldir with the old profile, does he have the bow as a standard then? I though that if a new profile was released, you had to go for that one..


Not for heroes, they aren't corrections, they're additional profiles based on theme. I think Aragorn has 3 profiles, Eomer 2, etc. The old profile has no bow (but gets 2 shots :roll: ). The new has a bow and armour already, but doesn't get the 2 shots. I'd take the old with bow and armour over the new.

Quote:
And if I were to swap Rumil for a standard captain, which captain would be wise to chose, the Galadhrim or the Wood Elf..?


I'm probably the wrong person to answer this, because Rumil is currently my favourite elf hero. My current army has only Rumil as a hero and maxes out on troops. I think you'd get more mileage out of Rumil + Galadhrim capt than Haldir + Galadhrim capt.

Quote:
I got the idea of Uruk-Hais aiding the Easterlings from Games-Workshops webpage...I thought that one needed a Hero for them, but I'm a bit confused since it's set up like this on their site.


It's wrong :) Besides, GW's army list suggestions are very poor.

I agree with Gothmog, you should reconsider taking Amdur.
Author:  strodemeister [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
@whafrog: I'm somewhat a fan of Rumil myself, and would like to have him with me. What is your setup for your army, if I may ask?

@gothmog: I'm just curious, why Amdûr instead of Khamûl?

I will get both characters anyhow, so I can have Khamûl for A Shadow In The East-scenarios, but you think this will be a better setup?

(100) Amdûr, Lord of Blades
(128) 16 Easterling Warriors with Shields
(112) 14 Easterling Warriors with Bow
(80) 8 Easterling Warriors with Spears and Shields
(70) 5 Easterling Kataphrakt
(490)

Thanks again, appreciate the feedback!
Author:  whafrog [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
strodemeister wrote:
@whafrog: I'm somewhat a fan of Rumil myself, and would like to have him with me. What is your setup for your army, if I may ask?


Here's a recent thread in the tactics forum:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21142
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
strodemeister wrote:
@gothmog: I'm just curious, why Amdûr instead of Khamûl?


Because Amdur has fight 6, reliably more attacks, an extra wound, you don't need a banner, he regains might etc...

You are 10pts below limit, get another Easterling with pike and shield, use it as an extra in the 3rd rank.
Author:  strodemeister [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
@whafrog: Thanks, I think I'll try out that list for myself, if you dont mind. Maybe without the Guards, not so sure about them.. though, they look wicked cool!

@gothmog: You make a good point, and I'll follow you up on your suggestion. Another poker as well couldn't hurt, so I'll throw that in as well.

Thanks alot for your feedback guys, I can't wait to have the armies ready for battle!
Author:  whafrog [ Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
strodemeister wrote:
@whafrog: Thanks, I think I'll try out that list for myself, if you dont mind. Maybe without the Guards, not so sure about them.. though, they look wicked cool!


Well, the guards are kind of what make the list. Getting that third die when you're defending a narrow place or even adding an attack to Rumil gives a serious statistical boost. Not to mention they beat almost any other evil hero in a fight. Now, maybe we use more terrain than most so we get a lot of places where it's useful, and it could certainly be argued that 6 guards are too many, but without them I think you might need something with kick, like a stormbringer. Then again, replacing the 6 guards with 9 WE w/spear gives you 46 models... :? Yikes!
Author:  TheGoblinTacticus [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
strodemeister wrote:

(135) Khamûl, on Armoured Horse
(95) 5 Easterling Kataphrakts with Banner
(104) 13 Easterling Warriors with Shields
(96) 12 Easterling Warriors with Bow
(70) 7 Easterling Warriors with Spears and Shields
(500) 38 Warriors in total



Euh, you can't have 5 banners if you only have one hero....
Did you mean
4 kataphrakts
1 kataphrakt w. banner?

and, I won't like to have 38 warriors in my force so, maybe you could drop the Shields for the Easterling warriors w. spear and shield, so you can have some more spearman to support.....
However, don't know all the rules so I'm not sure about that.
Author:  strodemeister [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
whafrog wrote:
Getting that third die when you're defending a narrow place or even adding an attack to Rumil gives a serious statistical boost. Not to mention they beat almost any other evil hero in a fight.


I see your point. I've looked at the Stormcaller (I guess that's the one you meant), but since we're quite new to the game, I'd rather start up with more "regular" warriors and perhaps add magic later. But if the Guards pack that much heat, it would be foolish not to try it.

TheGoblinTacticus wrote:
Euh, you can't have 5 banners if you only have one hero....


I'm aware of that, I've listed it as 5 Kataphrakts with one Banner. 5 Kataphrakts: 14x5=70 +banner 25=95.

I'll try out gothmogs suggestion and see how that works against my friends forces, but you have a point regarding the spearmen. Perhaps shorten the amount of shields and add a couple of spearmen instead, like this:

(100) Amdûr, Lord of Blades
(120) 12 Easterling Warriors with Spears and Shields
(112) 14 Easterling Warriors with Bow
(96) 12 Easterling Warriors with Shields
(70) 5 Easterling Kataphrakts
(498) 44 Warriors in total
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
TheGoblinTacticus wrote:
strodemeister wrote:

(135) Khamûl, on Armoured Horse
(95) 5 Easterling Kataphrakts with Banner
(104) 13 Easterling Warriors with Shields
(96) 12 Easterling Warriors with Bow
(70) 7 Easterling Warriors with Spears and Shields
(500) 38 Warriors in total



Euh, you can't have 5 banners if you only have one hero....
Did you mean
4 kataphrakts
1 kataphrakt w. banner?

and, I won't like to have 38 warriors in my force so, maybe you could drop the Shields for the Easterling warriors w. spear and shield, so you can have some more spearman to support.....
However, don't know all the rules so I'm not sure about that.


Easterling spears cost 2pts, twice as much as normal spears or pikes, the extra point is for the ability to use shields in 3 ranks, unique to them, it's a waste of that extra point if you don't utilise this rule to the full.
Author:  strodemeister [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pts Good Army + 500pts Evil Army
I have now two lists that I can start with and see how they work, so thank you all for helping me out here! I really look forward to see the Easterlings and the Galadhrims in action!

Cheers
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