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500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20766		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Fri May 13, 2011 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Best army for Sieze the Prize, Domination, and Contest of Champions. Choose from Serpent Horde (some Easterlings help possible). Isengaard, and/or Galadrim, if you would. Seems like I'll need speed and a strong hero.

For example:
Suladam mounted: 100
12 haradrim w/ spear: 72
5 Haradrim with bow: 30
6 Haradrim Raider w/ lance: 66
3 Haradrim Raider w/ bow: 36
1 Easterling Cpt. w/ shield: 55
10 Easterlings w/ shield & pikes: 100
5 Easterlings w/ bow: 40

5 might, 43 units, 13 bow, 10 horse, 499 pits

any help appreciated
Author:  Ultragreek [ Fri May 13, 2011 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Nice army. It's a good army, they only change i would do would be to add Kataprhakts. They cost more but their armour difference fills the space.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Fri May 13, 2011 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
I like the army, I wouldnt add Kataphracts, the raiders or even better serpent riders are far superior. Though I would drop the raiders with bows and if you can upgrade the raiders with lance to serpent riders and then get a few more dudes.
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Fri May 13, 2011 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Kataphrakts have a bad rep; why are Raiders better? Points cost? Lances? I will take another look at Serpent Riders; what is your experience with them that makes them so superior?
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Fri May 13, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Upgrading Haradrim Raiders w/ Lance for Serpent Riders: I get F4 and a reroll on 1 (Piosoned Blades). Nice; probably well worth the extra point, but not worth 30 pounds for a box of five. Too bad. I'll keep my eyes peeled on E-Bay, though. So I stick with Haradrim Raiders w/ lances---but why is the two points more for Kataphrakts' D6 and armored horse not worth it?
Author:  Noddwyr [ Fri May 13, 2011 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
I find that the lances outwiegh the extra defense as it makes the cavalry better at what its suppose to do, which is hit hard and kill. But thats just IMHO. But as I said I dont think you need the raiders with bows, I would rather get a few more guys in there so you can get more bows and outshoot your opponent.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Fri May 13, 2011 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
I think you're going to do well with that list. Your mobile force is large and tough enough to deal with a lot of opposition getting the prize and the Easterlings, with Haradrim support, can provide a strong solid wall for you to retreat thru.

I think you'll be better served dropping the bows on the Raiders though and converting some of your Harad with spears to have bows. Get up to the volley limit at least. Their bows with poison arrows will give your enemy something to think about. If you enemy has cavalry (likely) then volley at them from the start. In this game killing their horse is almost as good as killing the rider since foot troops often don't have much role in the initial rush.

Your goal is to get the prize off the table (preferably before reaching break point), not necessarily defeat your enemy in combat. So once you grab the objective (likely with Suladan) get that horse running off the board asap. You can use the rest of your cavalry at that point to set up zone of control buffers and similar obstructions to slow down your opponent from catching you as you retreat behind your advancing Easterling / Harad line (while your Harad bowmen continue to harass the enemy to the last turn).
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Fri May 13, 2011 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
This is great, guys. Ok: no Kataphrakt, and no bows on Haradrim Raiders, only Lances. I thought the Volley rule allowed the same kind of bows..so 5 Haradrim bows and 5 Easterling bows would be enough. Am I missing something?

Sieze the Prize clarafication: can a mounted unit get the prize? Dismounting,without losing the horse, all OK with the turn in contact with the marker?
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Fri May 13, 2011 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
The rules do say a man sized model is need to carry it away I believe, but I don't recall restrictions on digging it out. I think any model can dig it out, so you can start trying with you Cav so you don't waste time when you get someone up there.

I am not remembering right now if SBG allows dismounting on purpose. I know you can't remount except under special scenario rules, but I think you can dismount. If so, then Suladan could dismount to get the artifact and start retreating with it. Otherwise you will need to give it to an armored Easterling or such. Either way, use your cavalry to help keep the opponent at bay.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri May 13, 2011 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Beowulf03809 wrote:
I am not remembering right now if SBG allows dismounting on purpose.


I believe you can.

Quote:
If so, then Suladan could dismount to get the artifact and start retreating with it.


Or then pass it to a cavalry model.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Fri May 13, 2011 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
You can dismount at the start of your move and then move,
OR
dismount at any other pt in your move but move no further.

Mounted models cannot carry the prize

Serpent riders are AMAZING!! F4 poison lances!!!!
But D4 so look after them
Author:  whafrog [ Fri May 13, 2011 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
cereal_theif wrote:
Mounted models cannot carry the prize


Oops... :oops:
Author:  Ultragreek [ Sat May 14, 2011 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
This is adisadvantage. The fast ones can't get the prize.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Mon May 16, 2011 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
They can't carry it, but they can get you there first and let you get started digging it. I remember some of these games where it turns into a slugfest at the Prize when both sides have infantry get there around the same time and everyone's hacking away to get to the one model trying to dig that turn. Rather than getting into such an attrition of digger/carrier models in the center, get there first and try to get away before anyone else arrives.

I think the thought above is to use the Cavalry to get there fast, maybe a turn or two ahead of the enemy. Most of the cavalry can then keep going past the objective to engage and delay the enemy force while one or two models stay behind to start digging. One of these should be a Hero since you can use Might to adjust the roll for recovering and it's critical you get moving first.

So Suladan drops from his horse and digs, while the rest of the riders run interception. The Easterlings and Haradrhim are rushing forward to guard his retreat while Harad bowmen are volley / direct fire prime enemy targets from a flank side. When Suladan (highest armor, great combat abilities, M/W/F to survive, big stupid sail to help him go faster with the wind) has the prize he starts rushing back for his board edge, hopefully passing thru the tough Easterling line and leaving any pursuing models to try to penetrate that. It really needs to be only a short delay.

I believe you can also set up a bucket-brigade. Leave a chain of models just under a full move apart from each other starting at your deploy zone. When you recover the prize, rush it to the nearest model in the chain. They then do a move to the next model and pass it on. They then move to the next and pass it, etc. all the way to the edge. If set up right (and you're not risking Courage tests for broken 8) ) I think this will let you get the prize off the table in one turn after recovery in best-case. I'd strongly suggest double checking the rules about carrying and passing something before you try this though.
Author:  Gildor Inglorion [ Mon May 16, 2011 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Quote:
big stupid sail to help him go faster with the wind

:-D

I totally agree with the advice given above, except that the prize can only be passed once per turn.
Quote:
Mounted models cannot carry the prize

Are you sure about this? I know a man-sized model is needed to pick up the prize, but then the scenario says to refer to the "carrying light items" section of the rulebook. I can't find anything in there that prohibits cav from being passed the item once it's been dug out/picked up. I could be totally wrong of course...
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Mon May 16, 2011 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Beowulf03809 wrote:
When Suladan (highest armor, great combat abilities, M/W/F to survive, big stupid sail to help him go faster with the wind)


I LOL'd at this.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue May 17, 2011 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Gildor Inglorion wrote:
Quote:
big stupid sail to help him go faster with the wind

:-D

I totally agree with the advice given above, except that the prize can only be passed once per turn.
Quote:
Mounted models cannot carry the prize

Are you sure about this? I know a man-sized model is needed to pick up the prize, but then the scenario says to refer to the "carrying light items" section of the rulebook. I can't find anything in there that prohibits cav from being passed the item once it's been dug out/picked up. I could be totally wrong of course...


Two interesting clarifications up there. Important point on passing only once per turn..I did suggest confirming in the rules. 8) Points like this make me realize I haven't played this scenario (or a few others) in SBG for a long time. :( I need to try to drum up interest again locally more...we're very WotR focused lately.

Anyway, you can still use the concept to great effect as you can still effectively "double move" the artifact each turn if you can move, pass and move with the second model. If it can be passed to a mounted model then have a grunt get it out of the ground and pass it on to Suladan on horse. Let him run it down, perhaps having some hand-off options available.

I think I prefer Take And Hold to this one, especially at events, but this can be a quick game and an easy way to score a Major Victory if you are ready for it, know your options, and can pull off your plan.
Author:  Gildor Inglorion [ Tue May 17, 2011 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
It's been quite a while since I've played this scenario as well... in your opinion what would be the best use for Suladan? Would he be more effective dismounted (using Might to dig up the prize faster) or mounted to carry the prize back/pass it off then lead the defensive line as you rush the prize off the board?
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue May 17, 2011 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
for the purposes of this game, do wargs+giant spiders count as infantry that are able to dig up and carry the artifact?
Author:  Gildor Inglorion [ Tue May 17, 2011 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500pt SBG for Sieze the Prize
Nope, a "man-sized model" is required to pick it up. Not sure if they can unearth it though.
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