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Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
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Author:  Lord Hurin [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
Hey all, hopefully the third time is the charm on this one. After drafting lists for Angmar (no heavy hitters that I like) and Moria (don't have enough Blackshields and it annoys me that my regular Goblins are now useless - all 110 of them) to no avail, I'm finally going with Isengard. I have almost all of this force, and roughly 90% of what I've got is painted.

Common Formations
Uruk Pikers - 325pts
4 Companies of Uruk-hai Phalanx; Captain, Banner & Shaman
The Fighting Uruk-hai - 360pts
5 Companies of Uruk Warriors; Shields, Captain, Banner & Shaman
The Runties - 205pts
6 Companies of Orcs; Shields, Captain & Banner
The Maggots - 155pts
6 Companies of Orcs; Shields & Banner

Rare Formations
Uruk-hai Berserkers - 110pts

Legendary Formations
Ugluk's Raiders - 205pts
3 Companies
Sharku's Hunters - 225pts
5 Companies; Shields

Epic Heroes
Saruman the Many-Coloured - 240pts
Lurtz - 175pts


29 Companies, 21 Might. 2000 Points Exactly
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Thu May 12, 2011 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
Lord Hurin wrote:
my regular Goblins are now useless - all 110 of them)


Why? Why can't you use regular goblins, painted distinctly, as blackshields? In 40K would you not be allowed to use plastic tactical marines painted with white heads as veteran marines just because there exist dedicated metal veterans? How did it somehow come about that WYSIWYG is more stringent for LotR than for the warhammers? To satisfy WYSIWYG Blackshields need to be goblins, look like they are armored, have shields and hand weapons and as far as I know that is it. As long as you made sure they could be easily distinguished from any regular goblins you use, like, I don't know, maybe painting their shields black, I don't see how anyone has any cause to complain.

Just some food for thought.

As for your Isengard list,

Why a banner in with the pikemen? While the panic test part might be useful occasionally the main use of a banner seems to be making sure you get the charge, except with pikes it doesn't much matter who charged so I wouldn't bother.

Not too keen on shamans myself, seem too expensive for what they can do but your mileage may vary.

If your going to be buying Sharku's Hunters anyway, I would give them bows instead of shields. Your paying for the upgrade to expert rider so you may as well let them take advantage of it and some cavalry that can move to the flanks and fire can actually be pretty useful even with bows.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Thu May 12, 2011 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
You don't have enough formations. Shamans are pretty useless as it just opens an opportunity for a hero to carve up your formation which you can't escape and you're paying 100 points for it. If you want magic other than Saruman, get wraiths.

IMO, you have too much command. I'd drop all the command on all of them except possibly the captain on one. Then get Thrydan and some more shield warbands.

I might look toward getting some Isengard troll captains to support your flanks as you generally have very large and thus rather unmaneuverable formations so you'll have to give them some protection.

TBH, I think Mauhur's Marauders are better than Ugluks raiders but that's mostly taste.
Author:  Ultragreek [ Thu May 12, 2011 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
Thrydan is best to be used against Rohan.So yeah drop some command.You have already Saruman,And Lurtz a hero killer.May more Berserkers and more cavalry or Trolls...
Author:  Gildor Inglorion [ Thu May 12, 2011 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
I agree with spuds4ever - you have way too much command. Thematically the banners and such look really cool, but competitively they're a point-sink. I would drop both the Shamans, all the banners, and probably all of the Captains as well. Then with the points that frees up (390) you could get a Troll Captain, a 2-company formation of crossbows with a Captain (for At-the-Double then Heroic Shoot), Thrydan Wolfsbane for some flexible Might and Epic Strike, and you'll still have 70 points left over (although you might just be working with the models you currently have...).

I'm not a huge fan of the Isengard Legendaries - the Raiders in particular seem way overpriced to me. They're cool thematically though... I would also consider splitting Sharku's Hunters into 2 smaller formations of plain Warg Riders to serve as skirmishing units to threaten flanks. In my opinion Dunlending Warriors are pretty good for their points, so you could add a 3-company formation of them to serve as Thrydan's bodyguard (it might be a bit odd to have him leading an Uruk-hai pike block). I'm planning on using Wargames Factory Viking Huscarls to represent the models (you can pick up a box of 32 for only $16 online at thewarstore.com).

Overall though I think the list is looking pretty solid, hope you have fun playing it! 8)
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Thu May 12, 2011 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
The Command was because I was having trouble stretching out the uneven boxes of Uruks. Buying another box, I'd have 30 pikes and 38 shields, which is a pain. I wanted Shamans because I like their magic, and Nazgul don't fit into an Isengard force thematically. Likewise, Thrydan is better than a Captain but a single Man leading an Uruk regiment seems off. I definitely want to add a unit of Dunlendings, so it's great news to me that the War Store still has some of the WGF minis in stock.

Ugluk's Raiders are a personal choice. Mauhur's Marauders are both cheaper and a little better, perhaps, but I've always had a strange affinity for Ugluk. Besides which, I absolutely detest the Mauhur model. It doesn't look a damn thing like he did in the film.

LIkewise, my Warg Riders are all armed with shields. I found I liked them better this way and they were more useful in the SBG. I should definitely add some crossbowmen into the mix somehow, probably by dropping a Captain and banner.

Thanks all for the advice. Sorry if it seems that I'm stuck in my ways, I just prefer a more themed army over one that will win but "feels" off from Tolkien's books.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Thu May 12, 2011 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
Lord Hurin wrote:
Thanks all for the advice. Sorry if it seems that I'm stuck in my ways, I just prefer a more themed army over one that will win but "feels" off from Tolkien's books.


8) It will be nice when these two are not so mutually exclusive. I think in anything less than maxed out tournament-level competitive play many players will in fact have "fun and themed" armies rather than some of the things we see complained about here or something you may be building to take to a GT event.

Considering you're starting with the models you already have ready and are trying to stay true to Middle Earth, I think it will be a fun list for a while. There are some excellent suggestions above for modifying the army over time as money allows. Crossbow and Berserker Formations have each proven very effective in our local games and stay themed. Each can be built up one Company at a time and still be effective.

Sadly, I find Trolls pretty fragile in WotR. I rarely see any H2K models survive the first turn of combat, almost never still standing after a second. If you really use them to just support the action of other Formations then it helps a lot, and if you can Flank or Rear charge then even better. Troll Captains are great because you get Might, Heroic Actions and can At the Double, but at a big point cost jump. If you can only add one or two, definitely start with Troll Captains.

I agree about the Goblins and WYSIWYG though. If normal Goblins are "useless" for you and you won't be using any of them, then just tell your opponent that your entire army of Goblins are Black Shields. You now have 10+ Companies of Black Shields and a solid base to start from. I had heard that historically GW's LotR tournaments are move critical of "if a model exists you have to use it instead of a proxy" but in reality no friends should care for local play (as long as any confusion risk is eliminated) and even in tournaments I've seen Use-As without any issues (again, it must be done in such a way as to eliminate confusion). If you have a few Companies of regular Goblins with bows and then tell your opponent all Goblins with hand weapons / spears are Black Shields, there is no risk of confusion there and should be no issue in play.

If you or anyone you play with REALLY care, then just mold some very basic cloaks on the back of your goblins using green stuff, paint it up black with some basic highlights, re-dull-coat the mini and you're done. $10 in green stuff + a couple hours of time = 100 Black Shields.
Author:  General Elessar [ Thu May 12, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
I think this army has a good foundation on which to improve. Like several others have said, I would suggest dropping some command options in order to get more companies. I would be inclined to get another Epic Hero, but it would be hard to do so in a thematic way. Maybe ally some Goblins and Durburz/Druzhag?
Author:  ForgottenLore [ Thu May 12, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Isengard Army: One last try for an Evil force in WoTR
Gildor Inglorion wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Isengard Legendaries - the Raiders in particular seem way overpriced to me. They're cool thematically though... I would also consider splitting Sharku's Hunters into 2 smaller formations of plain Warg Riders to serve as skirmishing units to threaten flanks.


I've always thought the Isengard Legendaries were among the better ones in the game. Yeah, Mauhur's is probably a more effective formation for the proce, but Ugluk is not slouch either. It is worth noting that both of those two formations become more cost effective the more companies you put in the formation as the troops themselves are basically getting free shields.

If you are stuck with shields on your Warg Riders then I agree that splitting them up into 2 non-legendary formations to serve as harassment units is a good idea.

Oh, and if our arguments about Goblin Blackshields haven't convinced you and you would still like to do something with some of those goblins, consider than some basic goblin allies fits in VERY thematically with an Isengard force, especially with Ugluk around.
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