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| Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20640 |
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| Author: | Viggo [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Hey guys, I've got 40 or so Orcs lying around in a box and want to make a force out of them. I'm certain on Cirith Ungol. I haven't got money for trackers just yet. But any thoughts on a list like this: Shagrat (New one.) 110 Gorbag: with Shield. 50 Mordor Troll. 100 6 Warg Riders: 3 with Shields, 3 with Spears and Shields. 84 12 Orcs: with Shields. 72 10 Orcs: with Spears. 60 8 Orcs: with Two-Handed weapons. 48 11 Orcs: with Bows. 66 1 Orc: with Banner. 30 And a Nazgul on horseback. I'm thinking the Shadow Lord, Undying, or Knight of Umbar. (130) 52 Men. 17 Bows. 8 Might. Any pointers much appreciated. |
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| Author: | The Horde Lord [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
If you have shagrat you probably won't need the Troll as well. You could probably win a fair amount of friendly games with this list though. |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
It's good, but it also has room for improvement. If you want to play competitively, then drop the Troll and the Banner in order to get more models. Half a dozen Uruks would be nice too. |
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| Author: | Viggo [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Thanks for the help.. What about the Nazgul? Which one do you think? |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
It depends. The Shadow Lord would probably be best competitively,, especially if you're playing against Elves, but he's also pretty boring. I wouldn't recommend Khamul, the Knight of Umbar, or (to a lesser extent) the Dark Marshal; these three are the "fighty" wraiths, and are most effective on a Fell Beast, rather than just a horse. |
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| Author: | spuds4ever [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Yes, drop the troll as you're low on numbers and drop the banner as well. Also, unless you know you're going to play contest of champions, I would go for normal shagrat as he costs half as much and has got just as much might (I might drop him anyway if you're taking a fell beast). This will free up 185 points with which you can play a lot with. Perhaps giving your wraith a fell beast and then getting some mordor uruks which work very well for punching through a flank. |
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| Author: | Viggo [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Ok thanks.. I will be fighting plenty of Rangers though so I thought the Shadow Lord would be the best pick, but as you said he does look very dull to use. I know Shagrat is expensive, but I've found that it's always good to have a proper fighty hero.. And also - despite his stupid special rule - he is very cool! |
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| Author: | Gildor Inglorion [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
If you're fighting a lot of Rangers, an alternative to the Shadow Lord could be getting an Orc Drummer to get your models in to combat faster. As said before, I would drop the Troll and add a Drummer and some Mordor Uruks (which would make the army more thematic too as you would have both the orcs and the Uruks represented). If you have the models, I would also drop some of the 2-handed weapons and get more bows--11 really isn't very many for 750 points. And when you have the money definitely get some trackers! Either that or just convert some from normal orcs. |
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| Author: | spuds4ever [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Gildor Inglorion wrote: If you're fighting a lot of Rangers, an alternative to the Shadow Lord could be getting an Orc Drummer to get your models in to combat faster. As said before, I would drop the Troll and add a Drummer and some Mordor Uruks (which would make the army more thematic too as you would have both the orcs and the Uruks represented). If you have the models, I would also drop some of the 2-handed weapons and get more bows--11 really isn't very many for 750 points. And when you have the money definitely get some trackers! Either that or just convert some from normal orcs. There are two problems with your drummer theory, 1 is volley fire and 2 is that it will only affect the orcs. The SL is very good but he is dull. If you really want to win then he is the way forward but if you want to have fun, go for someone else. |
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| Author: | Viggo [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Alright, I've always been very skeptical about conversions and using them in shops. But I suppose I could give it a go.. I'm gonna get some Uruks,I've got two or three somewhere so a Blister or two should suffice.  What about the Tainted? He's possibly my favourite Nazgul, even without another spell caster to bolster him he looks the bomb. What do you think? |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
It's not difficult to hit 70 or so models in 750pts even with a Nazgul and Shagrat... Shagrat, War Leader = 110pts Gorbag w/ shield - 50pts 13 Orcs with shields - 78pts 16 Orcs with spears - 96pts 12 Orcs with Orc bows - 72pts 10 Mordor Uruk-hai with shields - 90pts 6 Mordor Uruk-hai with 2h weapons - 45pts 6 Warg Riders with shields - 78pts Nazgul on horseback - 130pts 66 models, 8 Might. 749 Points Total. If you wanted to replace the Warg Riders with Uruks or Orcs, you could get 69+ models in. |
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| Author: | Viggo [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Yeah it's all very well sticking 16 Uruk-Hai in, but I really don't have the cash for anything near that, I was trying to make a fun, Orc force without spending too much.. |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Then why bother with Cirith Ungol? Use Gothmog and Morannons or just a Morannon Orc Captain and Morannons. The fun thing with Cirith Ungol is the Mordor Uruks. |
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| Author: | Gildor Inglorion [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Quote: There are two problems with your drummer theory, 1 is volley fire and 2 is that it will only affect the orcs. The SL is very good but he is dull. If you really want to win then he is the way forward but if you want to have fun, go for someone else. Wouldn't a drummer actually be more effective vs. volley fire than the SL? Either way you're getting hit on 6s, but with a drummer you'll get to combat quicker and thus take less damage. And true he'll only affect the orcs (and the warg riders)--if Uruks were added they would not be affected. But if the list is kept as is I think adding a drummer would be effective and thematic (although granted the SL would be more competitive). I think you can make a fun Cirith Ungol force without tons of Uruks--sure they're fun to play with, but you don't need a huge number to get started. I think you'd be fine if you just picked up another blister. This list is pretty basic, but you could use something like this as a starting point... Shagrat, War Leader 110 Gorbag (shield) 50 6 Warg Riders (3 shields, 3 shields + throwing spears) 84 16 Orcs (shields) 96 12 Orcs (spears) 72 4 Orcs (Two-Handed weapons) 24 11 Orcs (bows) 66 7 Orcs (bows, spears) 49 3 Orc Trackers 15 6 Mordor Uruks (shields) 54 Named Nazgul on Horse 130 750 Points 68 models 8-9 Might (depending on which wraith) 21 bows Then you could consider dropping Gorbag (or taking the cheaper version of Shagrat) in order to put your wraith on a fell beast, adding Shelob, getting more trackers, etc. In terms of theme, Cirith Ungol is awesome! I always thought it would be cool to model the Uruk and the tracker who almost capture Frodo & Sam on the plains of Gorgoroth and end up fighting each other instead. There are also a ton of orcs that Tolkien mentions as being part of the tower guard... Snaga, Radbug, Lagduf, Muzgash. Lots of options for conversions and adding character to your army!
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| Author: | spuds4ever [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Gildor Inglorion wrote: Quote: There are two problems with your drummer theory, 1 is volley fire and 2 is that it will only affect the orcs. The SL is very good but he is dull. If you really want to win then he is the way forward but if you want to have fun, go for someone else. Wouldn't a drummer actually be more effective vs. volley fire than the SL? Either way you're getting hit on 6s, but with a drummer you'll get to combat quicker and thus take less damage. And true he'll only affect the orcs (and the warg riders)--if Uruks were added they would not be affected. But if the list is kept as is I think adding a drummer would be effective and thematic (although granted the SL would be more competitive). Not like that. I should have been more specific. The drummer is very easy to kill with volley fire he's got what, 4 defence, a wound and one fate. This means that you just need a 5 from volley fire and a little unlucky fate roll and you're left high and dry (and slow) which is why I wouldn't go for a drummer myself. |
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| Author: | The Horde Lord [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
The Drummer is D5 so that helps. I prefer the SL but the orc drummer is definitly an alternative if you are going for theme and don't want to depend on Nazguls. The Drummer could be shot down but it would probably take a few turns and hopefully your opponent will realize you are to close for him to bother with shooting it. Besides, if your opponent is fiering at the drummer, nothing stopst your archers from shooting at them. Anyway, io think SL is far better (magic, leaderhip, possible fell beast) but the drummer also helps. |
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| Author: | Gildor Inglorion [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cirith Ungol 750 Points help. |
Quote: The drummer is very easy to kill with volley fire Oh right, sorry for completely misunderstanding you. I totally agree that the SL would be better, I was just looking for a reasonably effective alternative. Although yes, bowfire will be an issue (especially vs. elves/dwarves). |
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