For your evil army you probably want to paint up another box of orcs at least. For your good army see my post on TLA.
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| Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) http://wwww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20607 |
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| Author: | werner [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
We play a lot battle companies and sometimes war ot the ring (300 - 500 pts). There's a tournament in our local games store and I'm going to enter. We've to take a good and evil army of 600 pts following the LOME rules. I started to count my painted Mordor miniatures and I had enough for the evil army (in de futur I'm going to paint a troll, fellbeast,... so that I don't too many models). For the good army I had to borrow one of a friend. Now I would like to begin painting a good army for a next tournament (half/one year later). I'm sure that I'm going to take treebeard and an ent because I want them in my collecion. I've created two lists (scratch) with different elves allies (I can start a battle company with the elves). List 1: 1 Treebeard 1 Ent 1 Haldir 4 Galadhrim Knight 5 Galadhrim Warrior 3 Guards of the Galadhrim Court List 2: 1 Treebeard 1 Ent 1 Legolas 3 Wood Elf Sentinel 6 Wood Elf Warrior These're fun lists (nice miniatures to paint, not for competition). C&c welcome. |
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| Author: | spuds4ever [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
I would either go for full monsters or none at all. Mixes normally don't work very well. What about your evil army? |
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| Author: | werner [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
spuds4ever wrote: I would either go for full monsters or none at all. Mixes normally don't work very well. What about your evil army? Only Ents in this case? This is my evil army: 1 Gothmog 8 Morannon Orc 1 Orc Shaman 24 Orc Warrior 4 Warg Rider 1 Witch King It's eveything I've paintend, I'm going to add a troll, fellbeast, siege bow,... |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
For your evil army you probably want to paint up another box of orcs at least. For your good army see my post on TLA.
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
I personally like the Legolas + Wood Elf force, but agree with spuds4ever that at your points two monsters are not going to help very much. Additionally I believe, 3 Sentinels is too much for that point level. I've been playing WEs for a few years now and almost always take at least one, but usually don't take a second until 500pts. I have only rarely found value with 3 Sentinels at under 750 points. I don't know too much about Battlecompanies but I'm going to guess you can get between 2 - 2.5 Wood Elf warriors for each Sentinel removed. So if you start your army with one Sentinel then you may be able to have 10-11 Wood Elf warriors in stead of just 6. Another option is to consider Thranduil. He lacks a couple of Legolas's special rules but he has a very effective one of his own and is a great combat leader for a few less points (another Warrior). Also, in LoME the Legolas that can lead Thranduil's Halls does not have armor so his father is sometimes the better choice. A single Ent may be a fun addition and be effective as well. I have seen Troll Chief or Mordor / Isengard Trolls used well around this point level if you have a large and flexible force otherwise. Here's a suggestion using Beechbone or Quickbeam. I'm not sure of the official SBG stats for them, if any. I only have the non-official stats from White Dwarf a couple years back and their WotR stats. I know GW has been releasing official SBG stats for some of the newer WotR items but I don't recall hearing about these yet. If there are official and good stats then use them. If not and you want to go with Treebeard he's a great model to play. Just drop one Sentinel and shift out Wood Elf warriors as needed to make up the point difference. It won't be too bad. 600pts Thranduil Beechbone or Quickbeam 2x Sentinel 10 WE with Bow 11 WE with Elf Blade and Throwing Daggers 15 WE with Spear 40 models, 13 shots (+11 TDaggers) This gives you 13 shots with the bow + 11 more within 6" with the Throwing Daggers. Giving them to the models with the Blades helps because those are the models you are most likely to charge at a foe first (with Spears coming in to support). And being able to do a full move and still throw means you can also cover your own retreat with them if needed. The have just as much chance of hurting your enemy as you do in hand-to-hand yet you can't be struck back, so if you can stay back and thrown rather than charge for one extra turn that's also something to consider. I find Elf Blades in SBG very useful for Wood Elves to crack some of the tougher armor you find. If you can gang up at least two models on an enemy then have one of them swing their Blade 2H. The other one gives the chance to win the Fight and the +1 damage will help. If you are 1:1 then just swing 1H. Wood Elf spears are awesome. Being able to 'shield' with them means you get 2 dice on the Fight and often have a higher Fight value than your foe so if you are just trying to block models, hold an area or tie someone up then they can be great to stall an enemy, as well as supporting your other models. If you do decide to drop the Ent altogether then I suggest immediately throwing in a WE Captain or adding Legolas to fight along side his father (now you CAN give him armor). Add more WE Warriors to make up the rest of the points trying to keep as close to 33% bows as possible. |
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| Author: | werner [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
Thanks all! I'm going to keep Treebeard and then I've the following question: why wood elves (thanks to 'Beowulf03809' I now know that they're good) and not galadhrim elves (lothorien)? |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
Personal preference, mostly, and the fact that you were wanting to use Sentinels. Once GW released plastic Galadrhim it's a lot easier to get a nice army of Lothlorien made as well, but a few years ago the Last Alliance elves were only plastics and official Lorien Elves were metal only. When they release the WE plastics I grabbed a couple boxes, a blister of Sentinels and never looked back. Also, if I remember correctly that extra point of Defense only matters with regard to enemies with a Str of 3 or 5 ( Str 4 enemies hit same vs. D3 and D4 ). As the average Str of evil models went up with stat creep and I was facing as many or more Str 4 enemies in time than Str 3 it wouldn't have mattered. And to be honest, playing Wood Elves really has helped me with focusing on planning, adaptation, and tactics. With my first SBG army (Isengard) I didn't need to worry as much. Smash your Uruks into a foe and start rolling dice. Pretty easy to learn the basics like that. There is really no reason not to mix the lists except for the 2-Hero requirement. You need to use Thranduil's Halls if you want Sentinels, and you need Lorien if you want Galadrhim. Luckily Wood Elves (with all gear options I believe) are available on either list. If you can only afford one Hero (and if you're playing with Treebeard in the list then you can't really afford two Elf Heroes as well) and you want Sentinels then you're stuck with that list. If did drop Treebeard then you can afford to mix lists. But if Sentinels are not as important to you and you have a couple boxes of Galadrhim available then by all means use them. I have found Haldir to be a very good mid-level Hero and if you really want to put the smack down on some Evil forces use Galadriel in her War Aspect mode. Her -1 Courage has a major impact on game play in general and when an evil force is broken that power alone can help them scatter like you've never seen before (just get the first move via priority or Heroic, charge any Heroes you can so they can't call Stand Fast and then sit back and let them roll). And as for combat skill I've used her several times to go 1:1 with Cave Trolls and will do so with Mordor Trolls and Spider Queens as well (though I prefer to have a couple supporting models in there to help ensure the Fight roll goes her way). |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
I've found unless you really want Sentinels, Legolas or Thranduil, the Galadhrim list is a better bet. You'll need the latest PDF from GW's website (you have to register, log in, and then look under the White Dwarf archives) to get the most from them. You can mix and match Galadhrim and WE (yes, fully kitted), plus you gain access to pikes, and a couple of good mid-level heroes in Haldir and Rumil. (I'm partial to Rumil, especially backed up by spear and pike, his special rule makes his role very flexible, from minion-eating to monster-hunting.) You also get shields, which takes the edge off evil archery. Still, I enjoy the Sentinel aesthetic and effectiveness, but to get both you'd have to drop Treebeard. |
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| Author: | werner [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
Thanks all! Then I'm going to mix both (WE and galadhrim) and keep treebeard. I want to paint as many different models so I've them all in my collection. I can start battle companies with wood elves and galadhrim (lothorien) so I can start playing. In the meantime I can paint more models, treebeard, a hero... So I'm probably going to buy : - galadhrim warriors - wood elves - treebeard - a hero When I've created another army list (draft), I'll post it here... Thanks again! |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
Beowulf03809 wrote: And to be honest, playing Wood Elves really has helped me with focusing on planning, adaptation, and tactics. With my first SBG army (Isengard) I didn't need to worry as much. Smash your Uruks into a foe and start rolling dice. Pretty easy to learn the basics like that. I found that too. I used to not really bother with tactics for my Gondor, Dwarf, Harad, and Moria armies (which is probably why the Haradrim always did terribly), but when I started using Wood Elves I was forced to use tactics. Since then the strategies for all my armies has gone beyond "run towards the enemy and fight".
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| Author: | kidterminal [ Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
werner wrote: spuds4ever wrote: I would either go for full monsters or none at all. Mixes normally don't work very well. What about your evil army? Only Ents in this case? This is my evil army: 1 Gothmog 8 Morannon Orc 1 Orc Shaman 24 Orc Warrior 4 Warg Rider 1 Witch King It's eveything I've paintend, I'm going to add a troll, fellbeast, siege bow,... Hi Werner, This list has a decent amount of heroes, but too few orcs. The lowly orc is the most important factor in any Mordor army. The orc is the shield against enemy archery, the bulwark that holds off the enemies heroes, and the helping hand that insures your heroes win their fights. Without enough orcs a Mordor army can't succeed. Also I'm not convinced 4 warg riders will be an effective force. I would think you need at least 6 for a useful unit. My suggestion is; don't get the siege bow. You should use the 50 points to get 8 more Mordor orcs with shield or spear to bring your orc count up to 32. Or if you can't get a hold of the Mordor orc models before the tournament, 50 points equals 6 Morannon orcs with spear or shield. I feel you should drop the warg riders as well there aren't enough of them. Unless you ditch the Mordor troll in favor of a warg mounted orc captain with shield and 3 more warg riders with throwing spears and shield, which brings your warg contingent up to 7 models. Dropping the 4 warg riders will give you at least 5 more Morannon orcs with spear or shield or 7 more Mordor orcs; or an orc with a banner(very useful  ) and 4 more Mordor orcs with spear or shield. Or you could use the points you spent on the warg riders to upgrade your Mordor troll to a Troll Chieftain.  Rob |
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| Author: | werner [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... |
kidterminal wrote: werner wrote: spuds4ever wrote: I would either go for full monsters or none at all. Mixes normally don't work very well. What about your evil army? Only Ents in this case? This is my evil army: 1 Gothmog 8 Morannon Orc 1 Orc Shaman 24 Orc Warrior 4 Warg Rider 1 Witch King It's eveything I've paintend, I'm going to add a troll, fellbeast, siege bow,... Hi Werner, This list has a decent amount of heroes, but too few orcs. The lowly orc is the most important factor in any Mordor army. The orc is the shield against enemy archery, the bulwark that holds off the enemies heroes, and the helping hand that insures your heroes win their fights. Without enough orcs a Mordor army can't succeed. Also I'm not convinced 4 warg riders will be an effective force. I would think you need at least 6 for a useful unit. My suggestion is; don't get the siege bow. You should use the 50 points to get 8 more Mordor orcs with shield or spear to bring your orc count up to 32. Or if you can't get a hold of the Mordor orc models before the tournament, 50 points equals 6 Morannon orcs with spear or shield. I feel you should drop the warg riders as well there aren't enough of them. Unless you ditch the Mordor troll in favor of a warg mounted orc captain with shield and 3 more warg riders with throwing spears and shield, which brings your warg contingent up to 7 models. Dropping the 4 warg riders will give you at least 5 more Morannon orcs with spear or shield or 7 more Mordor orcs; or an orc with a banner(very useful ) and 4 more Mordor orcs with spear or shield. Or you could use the points you spent on the warg riders to upgrade your Mordor troll to a Troll Chieftain. Rob Thanks The tournament is this saturday and my list is already sent to the organisator. In the future I'm going to leave the shaman (it's just because the mini is painted), add a troll, add a fellbeast (mayby leaving one ringwraith). After reading you post: - I'm painting 8 morannon orcs now, so I can add them, I maybay have also more orcs... - I'm playing a battle company with wargs, so hopefully I'll have more wargs painted which I can add to this list. Thanks again! |
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| Author: | kidterminal [ Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
Hi Werner, Remember the key to Mordor orc armies is numbers. This how they make up for the weaker troops and heroes compared to good armies. Shamans are very useful, you should include him in or armies, especially because you've already painted him! More wargs will be good too. Good luck at the tournament. Rob |
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| Author: | werner [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
600 Pts - Good (lothorien) 1 Haldir 10 Galadhrim Warrior 10 Wood Elf Warrior 1 Treebeard and 1 Legolas or 4 Galadhrim Knight or 4 Wood elfs and 4 Galadhrim warriors 600 Pts - Evil (Barad Dur) 16 Morannon Orc 8 Orc Warrior 1 Orc Shaman 1 Mordor Troll 1 Witch King (Fellbeast) and 6 Warg Rider or more warriors |
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| Author: | kidterminal [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
That's still to monster heavy for 600 points. If the Witchking or Mordor troll gets it early in the game you'll be in real trouble. |
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| Author: | werner [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
kidterminal wrote: That's still to monster heavy for 600 points. If the Witchking or Mordor troll gets it early in the game you'll be in real trouble. Should you go for the wargs or warriors? I know it has to many monsters (troll and fellbeast) but I want a fluff army (themed) which is fun to play and to paint. I'm not looking for a list to win tournaments. I mayby play one/two tournaments a year. I've learned that I need a lot of orcs so I'm going to use them instead of a little warriors of different armies but I really want to keep the troll and fellbeast... |
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| Author: | kidterminal [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
I don't play tournaments myself. Play this list, the troll could be fun if he survives. |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
In SBG the Mordor Troll can be pretty effective. Don't let him be alone as you'll want to minimize the chance of him getting surrounded, but he's tough enough to carry his own weight when played effectively. The Fellbeast is more of a risk I think. They are often arrow magnets, and often players will find they get their FB Nazgul isolated because it can move so fast and is a decent fighter. But it too won't last long if cut off from friends. You may decide after a few games to move that Nazgul to a horse and put the points saved into more troops. |
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| Author: | werner [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
Thanks all! werner wrote: 600 Pts - Good (lothorien) 1 Haldir 10 Galadhrim Warrior 10 Wood Elf Warrior 1 Treebeard and 1 Legolas or 4 Galadhrim Knight or 4 Wood elfs and 4 Galadhrim warriors Is 'Fall of the Necromancer' a great resource book to buy for this army? |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Starting a good army.... (improving my evil army) |
You don't need FotN for this army specifically. You should have everything from the basic rules (either the OR book or the mini rule book) and the PDFs that GW has available on their site, and the costs from LoME. It's a good supplement if you do have a chance to pick it up, as it covers Sentinels (which I think first appeared in it) and the combat version of Galadriel, which is an awesome model and would be recommended by me if you didn't have Treebeard in there. It also has some fun Evil models. |
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